Any thoughts on a OFA Fair to Fair breeding?

Question

The dam's parents are Good & Fair. The sire's parents are Good & Excellent.

I'm sorry, I should have given more details.
Both are champions, titled in obed, field and agility. Strong hip clearances throughout the pedigree. She has produced Goods & Excellents. He's never been used, but his dam is excellent and his sire is good, both produced goods & excellents. They both have generations of thyroid & cardiac.

Clarification: Fair is not "dysplastic".

per offa.org:
Do not ignore the dog with a fair hip evaluation. The dog is still within normal limits. For example; a dog with fair hips but with a strong hip background and over 75% of its brothers and sisters being normal is a good breeding prospect. A dog with excellent hips, but with a weak family background and less than 75% of its brothers and sisters being normal is a poor breeding prospect.
OFA's Recommended Breeding Principals
Breed normals to normals
Breed normals with normal ancestry
Breed normals from litters (brothers/sisters) with a low incidence of HD
Select a sire that produces a low incidence of HD
Replace dogs with dogs that are better than the breed average

Answer 1

How are the siblings and half-siblings of the proposed breeding pair? How are the siblings of the grandparents? What percentage of all those dogs were examined, how many passed and with what ratings?

Those questions would be my hugest concern beyond the usual of: Elbows, heart, thyroid, vWD etc...

Too few breeders check out the hips on their pet pups.. and if the only dog checked was a "good" ... how do you know the rest weren't fair, excellent or dysplastic?

I would far rather breed to an OFA Fair dog from a line that consistantly has a high percentage of their dogs examined and pass... than breed to an Excellent who I cannot get any other information on than the fact that its parents and grandparents passed.

Answer 2

Would NEVER happen in my breedings. I would never breed my fair at all, and I have recently rejected a stud that is wonderful otherwise,because he is fair.
Now, you can look at the other dogs from this dogs litter and see what they have rated. Rarely though, do you get a good sample to go on. You can also look at the other dogs in the pedigree beyond the sire and dam, and at the sire and dams littermates. Again, it is sometimes hard to get a good sample to go on.
You can also see if the sire and dam produced other pups from other litters that were cleared or not.
All that being said, I would NOT breed a fair to fair. You may decide, based on a lot of info, to breed your fair to something else.
If I bred a fair, it would ONLY be to an excellent with a good history of clearances in the background.
And a fair would really have to be an outstanding dog in all other ways.....like a finished dog or major pointed.

I am sure if you do more research, you will find more fair rated dogs in the pedigree. There are always some.
And I would not care what titles the two dogs in question have, A fair to fair breeding is just not a great idea. If, God forbid, most of the puppies in the litter do not clear, you have puppy coming back and blaming you for that. And other breeders looking at you and saying that a fair to fair was a big risk and look what it produced.

Do you know HOW OFA comes about it's ratings?? If you do, then you must agree it kinda seems like a crap shoot sometimes. I have seen many OFA fair dogs sublitted to OVC and failed. There is no "scientific" method for OFA.

My suggestion and what I would do if I had my heart set on this breeding:

DO A PennHip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If either of the dogs is under the 50th percentile for PennHip....DO NOT BREED IT!!
Their method is a little more than just a guess and is quite a valuable tool to use with OFA. I PennHip all my dogs at 14 months, and then OFA at 2.


And of couse OFA is going to say that. They cannot say fair is failing, or they would not have a fair catagory!!!!!! And MANY breeders feel they should do away with the fair all together!!!!!

Answer 3

Fair to Fair , what a gamble to take.
Myself I would never even breed a Good to a Fair.
But you know that you can end up with Fair`s even when you breed an Excellent to an Excellent.
It`s so unfortunate that when we do finally get our Clearances on our dogs and have what we think is a wonderful competition dog that we can be let down by the clearances, as far as being able to breed good quality dogs.
Just makes you want to keep every pup in every litter you breed doesn`t it.
Especially if you have finished the dog at a young age and have all sorts of training into it.

Answer 4

Personally I would not breed a fair to a fair even if both have a strong background. I would prefer ot breed the fair to a good or excellant that have strong backgrounds.
Also don't forget to also get CERF/PRA done as well as thyroid and brucellosis.these are very important too.

Also are the OFA results just for hips or are they for hips & elbows as well? If these dogs are Labs elbows need ot be done as well.

Answer 5

It would depend upon the breed in question, and on the rest of the family history.

In a breed like Goldens or Shepherds, where there are so many quality dogs with high ratings, there is no need to use a "fair" dog for breeding. But in some breeds with smaller gene pools compromises must be made.

EDIT: Another consideration is the inconsistency of OFA readings. Depending on the skill of the person taking the x-ray, you can get different evaluations on the same dog. You can also get different evaluations from different raters. I know one person who claims to have sent the same picture 3 times and gotten 3 different evaluations.

It also depends on the skill of the evaluator of knowing the different breeds. In Basset Hounds, the hips tend to be looser (puppies are OFTEN misdiagnosed with HD because their ligaments are looser at that age). What would be considered acceptable hip conformation on a Basset would never be acceptable on, say, a Golden.

Answer 6

Fair should never be bred to fair. Keep looking. Even a good/excellent rated dog can throw a dysplastic pup but chances are grater as the rating goes down. Pass on this breeding.

Answer 7

This totally depends on the breed and the bloodlines. There have been plenty OFA excellent rated dogs that have produced a ton of HD. What breed are you talking about? Also, have you checked the OFA website to see what the siblings and other offsprings of the grandparents are?

Answer 8

I personally, would never breed a "fair" dog. This is not an acceptable rating. Since the dam's parents are good & fair, I would be hesitant to breed her.

Answer 9

What about thyroid? Cardio? CERF?

Personally, wouldn't be my choice of pairing.
HD isn't only hereditary, it is also environmental & dietary!