LDS: what scriptures can i quote from the bible to address this issue?

Question

"The problem is you cannot avoid evil, since you have sin that comes from Adam (Romans 5), so everyone in the whole world is guily, unless God saves them. "

there's the Articles of Faith....can you suggest further scriptures. i feel like im wanting to teach this random person on a forum. thank you.

yep yep, i did read the footnotes, so im giving that to him.

here's our nice argument here if you wish to enlighten this bloke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtxKDwceIfE

i am doing my best-est, but my knowledge on scriptures is not as good as i wish it was, im working on it though. hopefully whatever i said there made sense (disclaimer) lol

miss cattie-brie, can i copy and paste that. i couldnt word that any better myself.

i am pouring my heart out, but for some people like him who are stuck with scriptures, what i know is not enough. they seem to have a fixed notion of how 'bad' mormons are.

Answer 1

The thing is- he's right!... sort of.

Tell him he's absolutely right... sort of- we truly are damned because of the Fall.... as he pointed out. Because Adam and Eve ate the Fruit of Knowledge, it made us imperfect. Because of that imperfection, we need help to get back to God's presence.

But Jesus has given us the At-one-ment, an absolutely necessary tool in "working out our salvation with fear and trembling." (Phillipians 2:12)

Then explain what "working out one's salvation" means... Repentance, resisting temptation, etc.

If you want, you can use my pit and rope analogy... although it works better for the saved by grace/works issue...

Normally, I explain.....
I'm only about 5'3", so if I were put in a pit more than about 6 and a half feet deep I wouldn't get out alone (no salvation through works alone)! But I happen to have faith that there's a Man up there with a rope (grace) who is happy to help me get out. I know that He and His rope are enough to get me out of any pit (sin) I happen to get myself into. But that rope hanging in my pit with me won't save me. I have to take it in my hands, tie it around me and hang on. I have to DO something (saved by grace after all we can do).


For your situation, maybe add that yes, Adam's fall made it possible for us to fall into holes. The thing is that it's pretty darn unpleasant to stand in holes all the time, so it just makes sense to avoid getting into holes whenever possible.... and be quick about taking that rope in hand on a regular basis (daily?).



A thought- why/how is it my fault that Adam and Eve erred? Was I there, rooting for Satan to be able to deceive Eve? (ok,so maybe I was, just because I wanted to be born some day, but I'm guessing he's not ready for that part)

The thing is that he actually is partly right. Adam and Eve transgressed- they were guilty of a technicality. Some things are intrinsically wrong (killing, dishonesty, cruelty), but eating the Fruit of Knowledge wasn't. It was wrong simply because Father told them not to.

When Adam and Eve fell, their decendants (we) became subject to sin (likely to act knowingly against the will of God), but we aren't found guilty of that same sin. We haven't exactly had the opportunity to make the same error.




Maybe ask him if there's any skeletons in his family's closet (prefferably a skeleton put there by a direct ancestor- no uncles, aunts, cousins).... According to his logic, the condemnation from that skeleton is his to bear, as well as the original perpetrator.... See what he says to that.

Answer 2

See this is the problem with the mormons, they are happy that eve or adam partook of the fruit, mainstrem christianity is not happy about sin entering the world. That just says what satan did was a great thing, all hail to satan mormons. You don't get that???(2 Ne. 2: 22
22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.

Mosiah 3: 11
11 For behold, and also his blood atoneth for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression of Adam, who have died not knowing the will of God concerning them, or who have ignorantly sinned. )
Your just worshipping satan for what he did in the garden, you don't get that???
I just don't get mormon theology, satan helped God, but he was stupid and didn't know God's plan, but he helped Adam and Eve, I was so confused as a mormon. They diss women, but in relief-societ we were todl that it was grest that eve ate the apple and then that th e women trangressed, there agian I am so confused, it is a good thing, but it is a bad thing, how can this be???
ephesians 2:8-9 salvation is not earned or deserved
romans 3:23 man is a sinner
matt.5:48 man cannot save himself
jerimiah 31:3 God is meriful 1 john 4:8
ezekiel18:4 and exodus 34:7 God is just
john 1:1,14 who is he
isaiah 53:6 what did he do
acts 16:31 saving faith
receive jesus as your savior,repent, pray the sinner's prayer.
romans 2:4
romans 6:23
romans 10:9-10
roman 10:13
roman 1:16
john 3:16

Answer 3

Genesis three talks about the fall of Adam and Romans 3:23 and 6:23 though you already put it.

I know this is in the Book of Mormon but it's a great scriputure:
Mormon 9:12-14
Good luck! :D

Answer 4

We do not carry Adams sin, but rather the consequences of it.

If someone drives drunk and crashes into you, you have the consequences of his sin. That doesn't mean that you sinned.

Because Adam sinned:
1. Man could come into the world
2. Adam (and all men) became subject to death and to sin.
3. We require the Atonement of Jesus Christ to save us from our now fallen state.

You may talk about infant baptism (there are scriptures in Moroni about this). If an infant dies before it's baptized, then according to his belief, it will go to hell because it had not repented of Adams sin.

got to go...no time to look up scriptures. Good luck.

Answer 5

Here are some scriptures that deal with Adam's transgression

Job 31: 33
33 If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom:

Rom. 5: 14
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

1 Tim. 2: 14
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

2 Ne. 2: 22
22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.

Mosiah 3: 11
11 For behold, and also his blood atoneth for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression of Adam, who have died not knowing the will of God concerning them, or who have ignorantly sinned.

Alma 22: 12
12 And it came to pass that when Aaron saw that the king would believe his words, he began from the creation of Adam, reading the scriptures unto the king—how God created man after his own image, and that God gave him commandments, and that because of transgression, man had fallen.

D&C 29: 40
40 Wherefore, it came to pass that the devil tempted Adam, and he partook of the forbidden fruit and transgressed the commandment, wherein he became subject to the will of the devil, because he yielded unto temptation.

Moses 5: 10
10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.

Moses 6: 53
53 And our father Adam spake unto the Lord, and said: Why is it that men must repent and be baptized in water? And the Lord said unto Adam: Behold I have forgiven thee thy transgression in the Garden of Eden.

A of F 1: 2
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

Because of Adam's transgression, it brought the need for the Atonement of Christ. It also allowed mankind to be born to the earth and for the Plan of Salvation to begin. Although he transgressed, it was important that Adam did so; as God foresaw that this would happen and his plan was not frustrated.

Answer 6

The more you read, pray and live your life by God's word, the more equipped you become as a living beacon of light for God's love for human kind. Pray before answering any questions and have a bible handy, the answers will be there to help others and yourself. Your forum should be how Jesus saved your life. make it personal with your pupil as Jesus has made it personal with you. Share your heart.

Answer 7

Hm...lemme think and get back to you.
Are you trying to disprove original sin?
LOL! Which one are you?

EDIT:
okay, this isn't scripture, but try expalining it this way:
What the original sin did was to cause the human race to fall into the practice of sin. The Bible says that God has created people to be upright, but they have chosen to do evil.12 We are not condemned on the basis of Adam and Eve's original sin, but our own. Our condemnation is rightly deserved due to our rebellion and disobedience of God's laws. God is not responsible for our sin, but we are, because of our own lusts.13 However, God, in His love, has provided a way of escape for those who recognize their own inability to live up to God's holy standards. Jesus Christ died for our sins to reconcile us to God. Trust Jesus to change you into the person you really want to be!



What that basically says is that Paul's meaning was taken out of context, we aren't condemned by Adam and Eve's sin, we are influenced by them. And they had to do that so we could experience joy and sorrow and truly be tested in our ability to follow god.

Use his own verse against him. That's what i'd do, he's not gonna respond well to BoM scriptures.

Answer 8

Was it 2 Nephi 2:25 that says, "Adam fell that men may be, and men are that they might have joy." ? Check the footnotes there for cross references.