Christians: How much spanking is too much? Serious question, please help?

Question

The Bible says "spare the rod, spoil the child" which most people interpret as encouraging spanking as a discipline. My question is, how do you as Christians decide when the spanking has gone too far?

This is based on a situation happening with extended family members of mine who are Christians. I am Pagan and I am trying to understand.

Ms. Lady,
It's obvious you haven't seen me around here before, or you would know that I'm not the type to make up stuff. Please try to get past your defensiveness and see that there are real children involved here.

What factors turn it from a spanking into a beating, that's what I'm asking.

I am not saying that only Christians spank their children, I am trying to understand my family members who will not turn in abuse because they are not sure just how far that Biblical scripture says a person can go with the spanking. The case I am asking about is very much affected by spiritual beliefs, that is why I am asking it in this section.

Lady Morgana,
I feel the same way you do about it. We don't ever spank our children. However, some of my family members do use spanking and feel that it is what God wants them to do. I really do want to understand and respect their right to discipline their children the way they choose, but I feel the spanking has turned into abuse (bruises, scratches and red welts on their bodies caused by spankings that were witnessed by other family members) and I have decided to take action. I love my extended family and if I don't handle this right, I could be taking the chance of alienating them and not even solving the problem in the process.

I want to thank all of you for your input. It has really helped me to understand where my family members may be coming from. Please keep these children in your thoughts and prayers during this difficult time in their lives.

Jimbo,
Our family doesn't use punishment as a discipline, but every Pagan family is unique, so I can not speak for all other Pagan parents. I went ahead and sent you an email that answers your questions in more detail. :)

Answer 1

It varies by the child's temperament. Some kids are just easier to discipline than others and some get crushed easier than others. Spanking is not the only method of discipline, but it is one of the tools that should be used in certain situations.

The verse you gave needs to be taken along with other verses on the subject. Here are some other verses with how I interpret them.

If the child dies - it's gone WAY too far. Spanking does not and should not mean abusing a kid in any amount - really.
Proverbs 23:13 Don't withhold correction from a child. If you punish him with the rod, he will not die.

Spanking should be done with love and with care - otherwise it's not good.
Proverbs 13:24 One who spares the rod hates his son, but one who loves him is careful to discipline him.

Spanking should be done to drive the foolishness out of him/her. One example is when a kid keeps trying to touch the hot stove - foolishness, right? I would rather him learn a sting from a slap on the hand instead of having a bad burn.
Proverbs 14:3 The fool's talk brings a rod to his back, but the lips of the wise protect them.
Proverbs 22:15 Folly is bound up in the heart of a child: the rod of discipline drives it far from him.

If it's making your children angry, it's not being done correctly.
Ephesians 6:4 Fathers, do not make your children angry, but bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.

If it's making them resentful or discouraged, it's not being done correctly.
Colossians 3:21 Fathers, do not make your children resentful, lest they become discouraged.

The last 2 verses draw a fine line for me and I approach spanking after searching for any other method that I can think of to work. If all else fails, sometimes I look at spanking as an option if I think it will work.

Hope that helps clarify it a bit. It sounds more like the question is when does spanking become abuse and not so much about Christianity? If that's the question, it looks like there are some good posts already here.

Answer 2

A spanking is abuse if it leaves bruises or causes injury. A spanking should only be just severe enough to get the point across and discourage the spanked child from repeating the offense that earned them a spanking.

There are many christian parents who do not spank at all, and many who spank but never too much and never abuse their children. But unfortunately there are some christians who advocate very severe spankings that definitely are most certainly abuse. They advocate very severe beatings even for the most minor of offenses, and for very yound children, and they say that it is the christian way to treat children and that god wants them to beat their children like that. But anyone with half a brain who has read the new testament can tell you that jesus would never approve of such child abuse.

Their are a few christian authors like that, who write parentign books advocating that kind of abuse. There are Michael and Debi Pearl, who wrote the child abuse manual "To Train Up A Child". Their is Roy Lessin, who has written books advocating extremely severe "spankings" which are actually beatings. There is also Anne Marie and Gary Ezzo, who have written similar books. There is the sadistic child-abuser Lisa Whelchel, who doesn't so much advocate beatings as various other sadistic methods of discipline. These books advocate very severe spankings. They say that parents should train their children to instantly obey their every command without questioning. The advocate beating children into submission. "To Train Up A Child" advocates spanking a 4-month-old baby who attemprs to climb stairs with a switch.They advocate spanking and whipping small children for unbelievably minor offenses. I could go on and on about all the abuse they advocate, but you probably get the idea. So that's probably the type of parents those relatives of your are. And if they are leaving bruises it definitely is abuse.

Answer 3

My son is about to turn two and we will sometimes smack his hand if necessary.

This is a very hard question and you might get better advice in the parenting section. Many people spank their children not just Christians.

Edit: The bible should never be used as a vehicle in which child abuse is condoned!!!!!! People in their right mind know that. If you have to even ask then something is very clearly wrong. I have known people who have over spanked their children (like when they put their lives in danger) while very upset and they knew right away and felt horrible over it.

Answer 4

A problem that some people have in applying scripture to their children is confusing "spare the rod and spoil the child" with "train up a child". The rod (in today's world, spanking) is discipline. It should be used when a rule is broken, when disobedience exists. Training must occur first. Children need to be trained. How would you like it if your boss wrote you up for something, before he actually trained you how to do it? That's abuse. A loving parent disciplines their trained children when they disobey. Too much can happen when it's done out of anger instead of a conscious effort to correct someone. And abuse (mental) can happen when it's not done consistently. Children thrive with defined boundaries in place.

Answer 5

I see absolutely nothing wrong with spanking a child. Being abusive and beating the child is different. Some children only respond to that type of discipline, others get offended if you simply yell at them. It all depends on the child and the parent, or whomever is giving the discipline. It has gone too far when someone is injured, emotionally or physically.

Answer 6

I am sorry for your situation. I hope it improves.

Being raised Fundamental Baptist (I am now a Witch), I know that Christians know *no* bounds for spanking. They spank as hard as they can as often as they can and with an object that will cause the most pain, and constantly look for opportunities to spank. They will beat the kid until they get tired. What makes it even sicker is that they actually enjoy doing this. This is the typical Christian "disciplinary" action. They feel that if they don't do it, then their god is going to punish them.

My brothers and I were victims of the fundie "spare the rod and spoil the child" garbage. My father didn't do this to us, as he was raised Agnostic and therefore with morals, but my mother who was raised Fundamental Baptist did. And she always did it when Dad wasn't home. Our father would have prevented this had he been home.

Christians do NOT know how to discipline their kids. They would if they'd get their noses out of the Bible and realize what they're doing is actually abuse, and that abusing your kids is NOT discipline.

If you feel that a situation has gone too far, I suggest that you call police and/or Social Services and report these people.

Answer 7

If you leave marks, that is abuse.
If you spank someone who is 12 or above, that
is not appropriate nor is it effective around that age.
If you are spanking them over and over or on
several occasions for the same thing (like every day or week)and you are not trying different approaches -
it is just not working - you are only going to
provoke to child to long-term anger (possibly
teen rebellion) - the Bible tells about not
provoking them in that way. Now a child
can get angry after a spanking, but it is
usually short-lived anger if it is done with
wisdom.

I hope that helped.

Some kids really do need it, but other approaches
should be attempted. Like any other dicipine, it
should be done with the child understanding the limits
and rules - it should be done in accordance with
understood rules - not just spanked every day
"just because" but for a specific offense, of course!

Answer 8

I am a Christian and I don't spank. I have found other methods that work really well for my kids. . .maybe I am lucky, but time-out and taking away privileges work in my house.

If you are seriously questioning how much spanking is too much with someone you know, then it probably is too much.


EDIT: This is only in my personal opinion. But, if the spanking are leaving marks, if different objects are being used to spank, if the child is being hit all over his/her body, if it is the only form of punishment for every single thing. . .those are some things that to me show that spankings have went too far. Use your best judgment, hon .. . But, if you truly are concerend and feel something wrong is going on be the one to stand up for the child. {{{{{HUGS}}}}}

Answer 9

Excessive spanking is too much.
Unproductive spanking is too much.
Spanking that provokes youth to wrath is wrong.

Spanking is NOT discipline.
Spanking is ONE form of punishment.

Excessive punishment is too much.
Unproductive punishment is too much.
Punishment that provokes youth to wrath is wrong.

Do you, as a pagan, punish? On what basis do you decide certain things are wright and certain things are wrong and that at least some of the wrong things need to be punished?

How do you as Pagans decide when the punishment has gone too far?
.

Answer 10

Sometimes spanking isn't necessary, but a good rule of thumb is one swat on the bottom for each year of age. Obviously After 12 there are better methods. I think the maximum should be no more than 6 swats. A loving parent wont go too far, but an idiot will.