If the Trinity always existed....?

Question

did the Incarnation of Jesus bring about a change in the Trinity?

must add when Jesus ascended back to the Father he went with a resurrected body!

exactly Bro Dan there was a change and that chage ascended back to Heaven
With God ALL things are possible

The Bible was put together by the Church and the Creedis the statement of it's belief
The Creed speaks of the three in one God

The Trinity always existed

John 14:16-23

don't know what they are teaching you in America!
sounds like a bit of the Anti-christ to me!

that's heretical miller-sorry

bty-no wonder pilate was scared!

fully human and fully divine-if he was n't then he could not have been our Saviour

That's YOUR belief fez-the Church put the Scriptures together and that is the Scripures that mainstream Christians follow, not Islam
Judaism just have what we call the OT

I don't know what your creed is-please tell me

Of course it was mentioned by the early church fathers-that's the point they had councils to determine the nature of Christ
the orthodox Church split from the Western Church around 1000ad because they said the son and the holy spirit were not co-eual with the father

What ou said CONUNDUM is true up to a point
The first christians were jews as you prob know and when Paul & Barnabas went to Jerusalem it was to a council to settle the matter of circumcision for non jewish converts-jesus was circumcised but here was Paul saying something almost blasphemous
So it cam e to pass and so with the Trinity the concept of it had to be thrashed out at the councils and we still have it today
That's my faith and that's the one that has been passed down the centuries. Others have their own thoughts.

everyone ha forgotten the question!

Answer 1

Good question!

I suppose so. God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is- in character- unchanging, but he does stuff, which causes change. He is a relational being, so just as the relationship between husband and wife changes depending on whether the husband's at work or not, so Jesus' relationship changed when he came down to earth.

Answer 2

If it always existed then Jesus must have been already a part of it and if it did not then it was created to accomodate Him.

The Jews of the time believed that there was only one God. When a person appeared with God like powers, then those that wanted to believe in Jesus had a problem. Basically that if Jesus was God himself then who was in charge of Heaven and supposedly answering their prayers? So the only way they could resolve the problem and to include the Holy Ghost, was to have a Trinity.

This required the special proviso that the Trinity were just aspects of one God, whilst being three separate people, otherwise the whole of the OT would be invalidated. The result is that the vast majority of Christians do not understand the Trinity very well at all.

Who prays to the Trinity? Nobody I've come across. Why divide God into parts? Why favour one person of the Trinity more than the other two if they are equal? The questions it raises are almost endless. Good answers are very lacking.

Answer 3

To accept the Trinity Doctrine is to say You Are Catholic because thats where the concept came from.
Many persons think the trinity is a Christian teaching based on God’s Word, the Bible. However, early Roman Catholic writers did not hesitate to admit that the trinity could not be proved by Scripture alone. Cardinal Hosius is quoted as having said: “We believe the doctrine of a triune God, because we have received it by tradition, though not mentioned at all in Scripture.” (Conf. Cathol. Fidei, Chap. XXVI) Other persons are just as frank about declaring the trinity to be of pagan origin. Arthur Weigall, in his book The Paganism in Our Christianity, states: “Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word ‘Trinity’ appear.” He says the idea of a coequal trinity “was only adopted by the [Roman Catholic] Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan.”

Answer 4

Jesus and the Holy Spirit are co-equal with the Father. Jesus said that He and the Father are one, there is a lot that we have to just take the Word and not worry about these things that we can't understand. I guess you might say we have a lot of catching up to do when we get there.

Answer 5

That is in The King James Version, authorized in 1611, and formed the strongest evidence for the doctrine of the Trinity. But now this part, "the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one," has been expunged in The Revised Standard Version of 1952 and 1971 and in many other Bibles, as it was a gloss that had encroached on the Greek text.

I John 5:7-8 in The New American Standard Bible says: "And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness, the Spirit and the water, and the blood, and the three are in agreement." Also, in The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, used by the Jehovah's Witnesses, you will find: "For there are three witness bearers: the spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are in agreement." I can understand if you don't know that this important part has been removed, but I wonder why many ministers and preachers are not aware of this.

The Trinity is not biblical. The word "Trinity" is not even in the Bible or Bible dictionaries. It was never taught or mentioned by Jesus. There is no basis or proof in the Bible for its acceptance.

Edit:

Some might argue that in Matthew 28: 19 we still find: "... baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." This part has not been removed yet. Is this not a proof of the Trinity?

The answer is No. If three persons are sitting or eating together, does it mean that they form one person? No. The formulation of the Trinity by Athanasius, an Egyptian deacon from Alexandria, was accepted by the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD‹more than three centuries after Jesus had left. No doubt Roman paganism had an influence on this doctrine of a triune god. The Sabbath was shifted to Sunday and December 25, the birthday of their sun god Mithra, was introduced as Jesus' birthday, although the Bible clearly predicted and forbade the decoration of Christmas trees in Jeremiah 10:2-5: "Thus saith the Lord: 'Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold, they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good."

As Christianity deviated far from the original teachings of Jesus(s), God sent His last prophet, Muhammad(s), as a revivalist to undo changes made by man: the Roman Julian calendar was introduced as the Christian era; Pork was allowed; circumcision was abolished by Paul (Galatians 5:2: "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."

The Qur'an warns in Surah 5:73: Surely they are disbelievers, those who said: 'God is one of the three in a Trinity.' But there is none who has the right to be worshipped but one God. And if they cease not from what they say, verily a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them. Do you still believe in the Trinity, which was never taught by Jesus?

EDIT: ((((((Cousin Bubba ))))))

Doesn't that attitude contradict the Bible itself, which says that you have to prove it: I Thessalonians 5:21: "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

Answer 6

jadore is right in her answer, trinity is not supported in the bible at all. the term was first mentioned by the early church fathers.

"About a century later, in AD 325, the Council of Nicea established the doctrine of the Trinity as orthodoxy and adopted the Nicene Creed that described Christ as "God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance (homoousios) with the Father."
"

Answer 7

Basically, the trinity is just the Christian take on the pagan triple Goddess. When the Christian church decided to overthrow the ancient beliefs of the people and create a patriarchal, male dominated society the maiden, mother, crone aspects of the Goddess were replaced with the father, son and holy ghost of the Christian God.

Answer 8

The early Christians didn`t mention any Trinity This concept came about in the 3rd century up til then Jesus was seen as fully Human In the bible Jesus always refers to himself as the son of man .

Answer 9

No. God the Father is the infinite superconsious. The Holy Spirit is the Thought/Power/Word of God and is God. The Holy Spirit operates in these dimensions (time, space and causation). Jesus, though human, had more of the Spirit of God in HIm than any of us (God is in all of us too.). Nothing changed. It's just the body of Jesus that did.

Answer 10

no. Jesus with glorified body in heaven is the fulfillment of the pre-ordained divine plan.

the tri-unity of God is a Biblical concept, not a denominational one.
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