Is this a Trinity proof text?

Question

In John 14:16 - 23, Jesus says that the Father will send the Helper (or Comforter) to be with the disciples.

In verse 23, Jesus also says that both He AND the Father will come "..and make OUR home with (the believer)" (caps & insert mine).

So, according to the Bible, the Holy Spirit, the Son and the Father ALL come to live with the Christian.

Your views, please?

NESHEMA -

Thank you for taking the time to answer.

You wrote, "Where in the New testament can you find the sentence that you shall worship Jesus as God..."

I can give you more than a sentence -

"For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son JUST AS THEY HONOR THE FATHER. HE WHO DOES NOT HONOR THE SON (i.e. in this way) DOES NOT HONOR THE FATHER WHO SENT HIM." John 5:22,23 (caps for emphasis, insert mine).

Also, see Revelation 5:13,14 -

"'Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits on the throne (the Father), and to the Lamb (Jesus), forever and ever! Amen.' Then the four living creatures said 'Amen!' And the elders fell down and WORSHIPED." (inserts & caps mine)

These verses clearly show that Jesus shares THE SAME "honor" (and worship) with the Father. The only distinction made here is between persons, not degrees of worship.

Answer 1

Yes the Godhead lives in us.
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
It comes by revelation from God Himself - that's why some people don't believe it yet - only the Spirit of God can reveal this truth.
What a privilege.
Good text.

Like i said - the understanding only comes by revelation from spirit to spirit (God's spirit to ours)
logic doesn't come into it - and if you don't know God it won't be understood.

Answer 2

Sometimes I think my brain must be wired Differently to Christians or maybe I was taught English Differently.

I will try to make an analogy : This is my ‘ Trinity ‘ a Manager / Coach / Player of a football team. That is to say he plays football , coaches the team and is the team manager – 3 in 1. ( I will call the disciples , the supporters or fans. )

So , John 14:16-23 is saying the Manager will send the Coach to help the supporters.

In verse 23 the Coach says both he and the Manager will make OUR home with the supporters.

Now , in my opinion , this is terrible use of English. If this superman is doing 3 jobs , he is not going to construct sentences where he talks about himself in the 3rd person. A better way to convey the meaning would be ‘As both the Father and Helper , it is my duty to help the disciples ‘

Verse 23 ... Just doesn’t make any sense which every way you look at it.

Now ... let’s assume there is no trinity , but 3 people doing 3 jobs ... now the English works fine !

I am missing something here ? Or is this just too obvious ?

Answer 3

The Truth About the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit

PEOPLE who believe the Trinity teaching say that God consists of three persons—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each of these three persons is said to be equal to the others, almighty, and without beginning. According to the Trinity doctrine, therefore, the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, yet there is only one God.

Many who believe the Trinity admit that they are not able to explain this teaching. Still, they may feel that it is taught in the Bible. It is worth noting that the word “Trinity” never occurs in the Bible. But is the idea of a Trinity found there? To answer this question, let us look at a scripture that supporters often cite to uphold the Trinity.

“THE WORD WAS GOD”

John 1:1 states: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (King James Version) Later in the same chapter, the apostle John clearly shows that “the Word” is Jesus. (John 1:14) Since the Word is called God, however, some conclude that the Son and the Father must be part of the same God.

Bear in mind that this part of the Bible was originally written in Greek. Later, translators rendered the Greek text into other languages. A number of Bible translators, though, did not use the phrase “the Word was God.” Why not? Based on their knowledge of Biblical Greek, those translators concluded that the phrase “the Word was God” should be translated differently. How? Here are a few examples: “The Logos [Word] was divine.” (A New Translation of the Bible) “The Word was a god.” (The New Testament in an Improved Version) “The Word was with God and shared his nature.” (The Translator’s New Testament) According to these translations, the Word is not God himself. Instead, because of his high position among Jehovah’s creatures, the Word is referred to as “a god.” Here the term “god” means “mighty one.”

GET MORE FACTS

Most people do not know Biblical Greek. So how can you know what the apostle John really meant? Think of this example: A schoolteacher explains a subject to his students. Afterward, the students differ on how to understand the explanation. How can the students resolve the matter? They could ask the teacher for more information. No doubt, learning additional facts would help them to understand the subject better. Similarly, to grasp the meaning of John 1:1, you can look in the Gospel of John for more information on Jesus’ position. Learning additional facts on this subject will help you to draw the right conclusion.

For instance, consider what John further writes in chapter 1, verse 18: “No man has seen [Almighty] God at any time.” However, humans have seen Jesus, the Son, for John says: “The Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory.” (John 1:14, KJ) How, then, could the Son be part of Almighty God? John also states that the Word was “with God.” But how can an individual be with someone and at the same time be that person? Moreover, as recorded at John 17:3, Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God.” (John 20:31) Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God.

CONFIRM THE FACTS

Think again about the example of the schoolteacher and the students. Imagine that some still have doubts, even after listening to the teacher’s additional explanation. What could they do? They could turn to another teacher for further information on the same subject. If the second teacher confirms the explanation of the first one, the doubts of most students may be put to rest. Similarly, if you are not sure what the Bible writer John was really saying about the relationship between Jesus and Almighty God, you could turn to another Bible writer for further information. Consider what was written by Matthew, for example. Regarding the end of this system of things, he quotes Jesus as saying: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God?

Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?

Answer 4

Yes, these passages do prove that. And there are many others, as well. Thank you for your "caps," for emphasis - that made that passage jump out at me!

John 1 is another.

Jesus also said, "I and the Father are one," and "He who has seen me has seen the Father."

(Some people will say that this concept was invented by the Council of Nicea, but the Council simply codified what was already believed).

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Jesus never said he was a Muslim - because for one thing, Islam did not even exist at that time, and did not arrive for several hundred more years. And he would never follow a faith that denies him, anyway.

Secondly, you are wrong about Christians-- Christians DO follow the teachings of Christ every day. That is what CHRISTIAN means.

Third, since Muslims always say the Bible has been corrupted, it is dishonest of you to then quote this "corrupted" Bible to try to prove your point.

So, if you are quoting the Bible, you must believe it has authority. If it has authority, it is not corrupted. If it is not corrupted, it is true. If it is true, then you need to consider believing it.

Answer 5

There is a Catholic bible teaching according to which there's a divine Trinity made up of three different beings acting as one, they are: The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit.
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Contrary to that there is a christian group who opposes this teaching and are called anti-trinitarians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-trinitarian .
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The Bible speaks however about the three persons who make up Trinity. Jesus says that baptised persons are so in God's Spirit. Jesus also says that after He ascends to Heaven He'll send the Spirit to convince men of sin of justice and of judgement.
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There seems to be no God's Spirit taking as basis the vision of John the Revelator. John has this vision of God's throne and the Lamb Jesus at the right side of the throne. Where then is the Spirit in this throne vision, ask the anti-trinitarians?
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A good question, is it?

Answer 6

i visit handle one scripture, it relatively is Matt 3: sixteen,17; (sixteen) (a million) who's being baptized, that is Jesus, no argument. (2) next; Gods Holy Spirit, descending as a dove, if Gods Holy Spirit is a guy or woman, is this guy or woman a shape shifter? And if the Holy Spirit is between the three that are one, as reported in the Trinity, here we see they are diverse, Jesus & the dove, yet (3) Now the 0.33 area of the trinity speaks & says; it is M Y S O N , the cherished, whom I surely have approved. Why might Jesus use ventriloquism, magic(the dove), & on a similar time be a fleshly human? To misinform all that have been there into questioning he's 3 diverse entities whilst in certainty he's one. Why might he be so deceiving? we are instructed that God spoke from heaven on the baptism of Jesus Christ, have been we instructed a lie? For all that have not had their eyes blinded by utilising devil(2 Co 4:4) the scriptures are comprehensible. Ephesians 4: 5 says; a million God, the genuine God Jehovah(Psalms 80 3:18 Kings James version, & many different translations) a million Lord, all of us be conscious of who it is, that is Jesus Christ our Lord & savior. a million faith, this may be the religion that procliams Gods Kingdom international extensive from door to door(Matt 24:14 & Acts 15:14). As further out in the Bible, I planted, Apollos waters, yet God makes issues advance. So if we flow consequently & make disciples of folk of all international locations, baptizing in the call of the father(Jehovah), and of the Son(Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirt(Gods ability) as written at Matt 28:19, we've finished our area & what Jesus has asked us to do as reported at Matt6:9; sanctify(make Holy) Gods call "Jehovah"!

Answer 7

The trinity is a false teaching. Consider this, if Jesus was god,how could he die as a "coresponding " ransom for Adamic sin ? Jesus needed his father to resurect him, if he didn't then the principle of the ransom is undermined. Jesus and his father are in aggreement, but they don't have to be the same person to do that.
When Jesus said i and the father are one, the context shows him also telling his disciples that they should be one in the same manner. Does that mean that all christians are the same person? Clearly not. But that they should be united in thought and purpose.

Answer 8

THE FATHER THE SON AND HOLY SPIRIT IS THE LORD JESUS HIMSELF.
IF YOU NOTICE THAT JOHN IS EXPLAINING IS GODHEAD TO THE READER. OUT OF THE FOUR GOSPELS JOHN REVEALS JESUS AS GOD. TAKE A LOOK AT SCRIPTURE 16 OF CHPT. 14 JESUS IS STATING THAT THE FATHER WILL SEND A COMFORTER. REMEMBER JESUS IS SPEAKING AS A HUMAN BEING, BUT UNDRESTANDS THE ROLE AS GOD. HE CAN ONLY EXPLAIN IT THIS WAY .THAT WE AS HUMAN MINDED PERSON CAN UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF THE HIS COMFORT. THAT IS WHY HE STATES IN VERS 18 THAT HE WILL NOT LEAVE US COMFORTLESS AND COME TO US. KNOW HERE HE IS SPEAKING AS GOD HIMSELF SENDING HIS OWN SPIRIT (HOLY GHOST).THE FATHER SON AND HOLY SPIRIT ARE ONE THAT IS JESUS. LOOK AT THE RESPONSE HE GAVE TO PHILIP WHEN PHILIP ASKED IF JESUS CAN SHOW THE FATHER. READ FROM CHPT 14 V. 8-14. THE TRINITY DOCTRIN IS VERY WELL BELIEVED IN MOST CHRISTIAN CHURCHES. I MY SELF AM A BELIEVER IN THE ONESS OF OF THOSE THREE MANIFESTATIONS. PLEASE CONSIDER STUDYING OLD TESTAMENT WITH PRAYER AND SOME FASTING IF POSSIBLE. I BELIEVE GOD WILL LEAD YOUIN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

Answer 9

The Comforter, one called alongside to help. This would indicate that the Comforter would be of the same quality and character as Christ. The Comforter would be God. For ever. Christ would go away but the Helper would remain for ever. The Helper is the Holy Spirit would have a twofold ministry. He would dwell with them. Christ would be with them through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ dwells in us through the Holy Spirit, which is His Helper, and our Comforter.

Answer 10

God bless you Jesus loves you. God can change your life. It does not matter who you are, where you are from and how do you look like He still loves you and can change your life. What God's Holy Word, the Bible says it is true. God says the true and what the Holy Spirit is apart of the Holy Trinity. If you read the Book of Genesis chapter 1 verses 1-4. God sents His Holy Spirit to be with us. The Holy Spirit is God the Spirit and is there in the bad, good and difucult times and moments. God bless you Jesus loves you