Care to comment on this passage from Chuang Tzu?

Question

It is a dialogue between Kongfuzi and one of his beloved disciplies, as related by Chuang Tzu/Zhuangzi.

Penny for your thoughts?

[ The Sages of old first strengthened their own character before they tried to strengthen that of others. Before you have strengthened your own character, what leisure have you to attend to the doings of wicked men? Besides, do you know into what virtue evaporates by motion and where knowledge ends? Virtue evaporates by motion into desire for fame and knowledge ends in contentions. In the struggle for fame men crush each other, while their wisdom but provokes rivalry. Both are instruments of evil, and are not proper principles of living.]

Answer 1

This question of leisure is quite loaded from the outset, since it presumes the character of other men is wicked. One could argue, why else would the character of others need strengthening? That of course then leads to the inevitable conclusion, that the character of sages of old was still wicked, if it too needed strengthening. Now we have wicked sages, and we haven’t even begun to address, what evaporated virtue by motion and where knowledge ends.

A wicked sage is quite a contradiction in terms, but is that not how the ineffable nature of spirituality is transmitted, by self-confounding statements? What makes the sage virtuous is his humility in the face of his wickedness. The self-effacing stance strengthens character. Virtue and wickedness or vice are not solved. Indeed, how can they coexist? Not solved, they are however resolved in the state of being taken by the sage.

Then what of doing, what of proper principles of living? What can be proper, if even the sages are wicked? Only strengthening of character! Two examples of improper living are presented, in order to give this answer indirectly, a far more clever dialectic to make the point of a spiritual quality that is not provable.

First, we cannot resolve our inherent wickedness in the world by attempting to fix that of others. In fact, we can only resolve it within ourselves. As soon as we move to engage the world or others, virtue evaporates into desire for fame for the following reason: However nobly we wish to dress up our motivation, our contention that the character of others needs strengthening is in essence presumptuous. By contrast, our supposed virtue of service is nothing more than sly jockeying for position in the guise of charity. Untempered, our motivation lacks humility.

How does this motivation arise? Could the desire for fame and superiority be rooted in the inability to live with the realization of a wickedness all possess? What then but a perceived inferiority promotes the desire to seek fame by strengthening other’s character? Fame and shame go hand in hand. The sage distinguishes him- or herself in his or her capacity to wrestle with this within him or her self. The sage does not shirk the pain of resolving the unsolvable contradiction of virtue and vice both and thus refuses to project it onto others.

Secondly, knowledge ends in contention, because it can always be argued. Indeed, endless argument is sure to follow, when we have something to prove, e.g. our lack of wickedness. Next follows one-upmanship, of who is going to be more famous and whose arguments are superior. Before long, people are at swords’ end. This is ignorance, not knowledge. Only the knowledge of the sage does not come at the expense of another. Conversely, only the improvable is ultimately knowable, self-evident, and true. Knowledge ends, where it begins, with Self.

Speaking of supposed instruments of evil, of course the whole discourse still begs the question, what is proper living in the world? This becomes all the more poignant, when our motivations become perilously arbitrary as the result of scrupulous self-examination. Paradoxically, here true freedom is found as the unmotivated life becomes filled with infinite possibility. The key to strengthening the character of a sage lies in how the most beneficial possibility is chosen within the cauldron of infinite contradictions such as vice and virtue.

Infuriatingly for some, the answer simply is to strengthen your character and then find out, what proper living is. No good, universally applicable answer otherwise exists. Each has to be derived from the context of who one is in relation to each proposition as it arises. Proper living is thus not a matter of arguable morality, but of ethics based on inherent, immutable value. It also becomes clear then, why it is extremely important to develop character. Without it, satisfactory answers to proper living cannot be forthcoming. Instead, such life is an endless struggle for eternally illusive answers to our problems. Life becomes perpetual suffering.

Change yourself and find what is unchanging. Strengthen yourself by examining the weaknesses that parade falsely as you. With such strength, the true sage needs no strengthening and no answers. Proper living effortlessly emerges from the truth of what is deeply contemplated and attended to each moment. The life of the sage is one of true leisure.

PS: For raising such a beautiful question please keep the penny or pass it on to the next person.

Answer 2

I think this should be a daily reminder. Dont judge unless your slate is clean. I love the line: Virtue evaporates by motion into desire for fame and knowledge ends in contentions. It rings so true in todays society. Thank you for sharing!

Answer 3

He has a point there because during those times several groups were contending for the emperor's favor. Knowledge and wisdom aren't bad if humbly handled. We need them to fulfill the purpose of life which is essentially to develop into something better. To avoid conflicts, the learned can be a recluse and just wait for the world to come and bother him. Or he can help shape the world, to civilize it, so that no one will bother others no more.

Answer 4

Dear Brother Chen

There is no place in the world where God Almighty has not sent Holy Apostles / Messengers to guide the people
As per the Prophetic Saying of Muhammad peace be on him, there came 140,000 prophets since Adam our foremest Father peace be on him.

World can still Benefit out of the Words of Wisdom taught by the Rightly Guided Saints / Teachers of their time.

Just to support your Subject let me also place few Verses of Holy Book Quran in this regard:

61:2. O ye who believe! Why say ye that which ye do not?

61:3 Most loathsome is it in the sight of God that you say what you do not do!

53:38 that no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another’s burden;

104:1 WOE unto every slanderer, fault-finder!

76:2 Verily, it is We who have created man out of a drop of sperm intermingled, so that We might try him and therefore We made him a being endowed with hearing and sight.

103:2. Verily Man is in loss, 103:3. Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.

91:9 Surely he attained to his goal who purified his soul 91:10 And Surely he but failed who buried it in sin.

May God Almighty Guide All of us towards the Straight Path of those whom He Blessed and keep us away from the path of those who earned His Wrath. Amen.

Answer 5

How often I should have considered the master's word before I have spoken.

Who does not enjoy being right, and who does not enjoy recognition? The shameful truth is that our desire to be right will block our path to knowledge, and our vanity will turn our virtuous pursuits into needless struggle.

I feel like a fool, when seeing myself in this light.

Answer 6

Word up Chuang Tzu! rockin it oldschool with the wisdom of the ancients! holla

Answer 7

There is a great parallel in The Bible, of not removing the speck out of your brother's eye before you have removed the beam from your own.

Answer 8

I think it's pretty good. You gotta take your own inventory instead of trying to fix everyone else. And know matter how much you know, if you get into a contentious debate no one learns.