Are you Actually "learning" by having your Sensei toss you around &or Twist u up(for HIS pleasure?)?

Question

your Sensei will make a FOOL outta ya!(And YOU Paid the $ for that!)
OR does he OWN you with a technique 10 or 20 times so you can "get it" ?

Answer 1

of course he must be able to demonstrate a technique using and uke. However that doesn't mean that he should abuse his uke. That does not make for a good "teacher". I've seen my share of instructors and had my share of hard *** types. Two of which borderlined insanity with their training method. I've had my share of serious pain and near breaks with them insisting that there was nothing wrong. One of them actually hit me in the trachea once during a demonstration leaving me gasping for breath for over 5 minutes. A teacher does indeed sometimes walk a thin line between realistic training and abuse sometimes. The trick to a good teacher is to know where to draw the line. On should never willingly try to hurt his opponent that is not the point of martial art at all. That said it must be said that in aikido class we sometimes get rough on one another if we know the other can take it. if an opponent taps out you let go period. Don't try to take it an instant further than what your oponent will allow.

Answer 2

Speaking as a "uke" I have been called many times in front of the class to demonstrate a technique. You are being an example for the class to see how this works on a real person. How to shift your body properly to do a break fall or how incapcitate an attacker.It seems everyone wants to throw a person, but no one wants to be thrown, its embarrassing. I understand if a Sensei goes too far, thats wrong and he is just feeding his ego, and should not be a teacher at all. Again speaking for the one that has the technique on him when attacked you get thrown you then see the opportunties that lie, what then. Its a different perspective and expands your art to be better and so you can defend against.

Answer 3

There are some instructors that teach this way who have small schools, few students, and don't generally produce a good quality student either. If I have to "own a student" and do a technique 10 or 20 times then I am not a very good instructor. There are some exceptions to this and one is a student that has learning disabilities but other wise I should be able to teach most techniques fairly quickly, with a minimum amount of trouble and then coach my students through it making helpful suggestions and minor corrections as they learn how to do it.

As for tossing or twisting students into pretzels I only do that as a last resort when a student has shown either a lack of respect for me or other students, a disregard for safety, or being overly aggressive and hurting other students in training. This is always a last resort and I first take that student aside and coach, advise, and reprimand them and then use that as a last resort and then the only other alternative is to kick them out the door.

Answer 4

Depends. If you go into the dojo for the first time, thinkin you're a bada** after being able to copy a few techniques, then yeah, your Sensei throwing you around like nothing is gonna make you learn something--that you aren't as "bad" as you thought you were.

But if you're talking about learning techniques, I'd say you're REALLY learning if your the one doing the throwing and twisting, and the Sensei is the one getting thrown around (at least if he's not making it easy for you).

Answer 5

I know that when I am taught something it is easier to get it done the right way to me first. I feel that if I get the same reaction from the people I am applying the techique to, I got it right. There really is no replacment for good training. Even if you are on the receiving end. I know my shoulder still hurts from 2 weeks ago when my instructor felt like "demonstrating " on me, but I have a much better understanding of the technique now. And everyone laughing when I'm on the floor in pain go Oh Sh*t he is going to do that to me now.

The funny thing is that later that night my instructor asked me to throw him for a demonstration and he didn't realize how high or fast he would actually get thrown. So i guess what goes around comes around. Sooner or later.

Answer 6

I've never participated in a "hard" martial art, but your instructor should be skilled enough to control the techniques he does to you. I don't think you should be getting beat down in class (except maybe sparring with other students). Personally, I often need my jujutsu instructor to actually do a technique on me so I can feel what the the technique is supposed to do (my class is not focused on tradition). But he has incredible control and can do it just enough to submit me so that I understand it, without breaking my wrist/arm/whatever. Even in the rare occasions I spar with my instructor, he just makes it so I get in quality work. If he sees/feels me going for a technique, he'll make me work for it so I do it right; in this way I learn.

I've also never been in a rigidly traditional school, like one where the lower belts were basically peons. It may be customary for lower belts to get beat down in some schools/dojos/lineages/arts, but honestly, there is really no good reason for an instructor to OWN a pupil with a technique.

Answer 7

It's great that you make this point.

There are many teachers out there like that. I endured that kind of "training" for decades. What a glutton for punishment, huh!?

I have lots of injuries, including internally that affect my life today because of this. Do not allow this to happen to you. No matter how great and masterful the teacher is.

I thought I was just being the loyal student. Yeah... the class makiwara is more like it.

I teach today and have developed my own method of teaching based on "Koryu" or "old stream", and make it a point to use them as "uke" as little as possible. They learn more with little risk of injury.

As they get stronger they can exchange techniques with each other.

I guess I have to thank Sensei for this valuable lesson. He taught me what to teach them and how not to teach them, more efficiently and completely... if this makes sense, that is!

Answer 8

well actually if you took a Japanese style of fighting back in
the day when the teacher would do something like that over and over they were telling you something meaning hey dude i have hit you in the side of the ear 20 times now dont you think you should be doing something about it. Not to be throwing there power around just to make you look bad. It was to teach you your weekness in that area. When sword work with the bokken, if you were week in the wrist area they would stike that point until you knew that you better start blocking parring that type of stike/blow/attack ect ect Because the teacher wouldnt always be there for you and that you would have to keep every thing that they had taught them in there head. To make a long story short. People learn from MISTAKES

exp. lets say little johny went out and cut dads tires off the rims of his car, how do you think that he would learn from it

A. mom and dad say now little johny that was a bad thing you did shame on you

B. he did something wrong now lets stomp the hell out of him so that he cant move to go cut any more tires

C. give him a spanking ground him and then tell him now because you cut my tires you cant have the new game you wanted because i have to go buy new tires for the car

Answer 9

Huh... No. My sensei is not a sadist.
While he could probably toss me around the room at will, neither of us would see the point in that.
I've actually been lucky enough to find a very good and very patient teacher who has a good idea of when to push students and when to allow them to relax.

Answer 10

Hmmm your question seems to suggest more about your mental approach and maturity than that of your instructor - presuming you did your homework and found a reputable, quality, and experienced instructor to train with.

Do you learn from having someone who is more skilled, more experienced, and more competent work with you - yes! You'll learn much more from this person than you will from someone less experienced or someone whom you can dominate with your skills. This said, the more skilled person should not be simply showing off or trying to embarass you as they work with you, but rather, they should be reflecting your own faults and letting you learn where your weaknesses and lapses in skill or concept are.

If your instructor is demonstrating with you it geneally means one of a couple of things :

1) They recognize you as a skilled senior with whom they can work in the trust that you know what to expect, know what to do, and know how not to make a silly mistake

2) They believe you are cocky with other students or that you need a minor attitude adjustment and is offering you an opportunity to realize you still have much to learn and understand before you have a right to even consider being as cocky as you may be acting

3) They believe that a little personal attention will significantly help you understand the technqiues they demonstrate with you

I personally tend to select my most senior color belt assistants for demonstration purposes. It helps them fulfill their role as assistants, it provides them with a position of respect and recognition, and it helps them fully appreciate and understand the skill that goes into applying techniques with full speed, without full force i.e. full control.

I do work with other students, but it is always in a more controlled, slower, and more methodical manner, as less skilled and experienced students will frequently resist or react in ways that increase the likelihood of injury or damage to themselves.

All things being as they SHOULD be i.e. you have a quality and experienced instructor and they have established a quality and credible program, then you should be HAPPY that your instructor chooses you to work with. You will pick up many nuances in grip, weight distribution, power application, movement and so on that many simply observing may miss. This should be an honor.

If all things are not equal then you may have an instructor who simply likes to exert their skill and experience by dominating and bullying students. If this is the truly the case, or you feel it to be so, WHY are you still training with them. Leave! Of course, it could also be that you have way too much ego, and when your instructor works with you, you are the only one who believes you look like a fool and are being owned. If that is the case, then you need to look inside you.

Bottom line, no-one here can really answer this for you as we do not know you or your instructor. If you are uncomfortable, go talk with you instructor and express your concerns. You may not like the answers you get, but at least you'll be getting the information from the only credible and reliable source available to you at the moment. Then, you can determine your next best course of action.

Good luck to you.

Ken C
9th Dan HapMoosaKi-Do
8th Dan TaeKwon-Do
7th Dan YongChul-Do