Bashing the Catholic church?

Question

I am kind of curious to see what people think on this. This question is specifically about me. I often question traditions of the Catholic church on here. However in my mind I do not bash Catholics. Just question some of your traditions. What do the Catholics on here think? Do you consider me to be bashing you?

tebone0315 - not going to get into it here but saying all the Catholic traditions date to Christ is just not true. If you want one example look at the rosary.

Answer 1

Well....if I were "Roman" Catholic, I might have a different take...but - since my second language is "Fundie-Prot" - I feel that we can communicate on some basic level. I enjoy the repartee and consider it all joy that we probably agree on 83.8% of what the "Faith Once Delivered" is all about.

Answer 2

I don't think any of us, who are genuine in our faith and our desire to share, mind if you question Catholicism. It is okay to ask, to state why you think it is wrong and debate both sides.

Bashing is to just say we are wrong in all things, going to hell, not saved, pagan, idol worshipers, etc. and so on. People who do that are bashing.

You are right, everything a Catholic might do does not date back to Christ. But first you must realize the Catholic Church is not a bible-based religion. We consider sacred scripture, sacred tradition and the magesterium (authority of the Church) to be equal. Christianity was spreading and being practiced by the early Christians before the Bible was even written. So when we say the core traditions/teachings of the Church go back to Christ, it is because these traditions pre-date the Bible. All three aspects (scripture, tradition and magesterium) must be in agreement. Before the Church announces something like being against contraception, the understanding of life, of God, of marriage, of children etc and so forth are weighed against scripture and tradition. With authority given by Christ, the magesterium can use it's authority to declare the Church stance on such a matter. It backs up that stance with a full disclosure of "why" backed up by scripture and the traditions.

We know the Mass was being celebrated in it's current (core) form as early as 150AD. That is the first record we have...so it must have been even earlier than that.

When something comes along, like the rosary, it takes time for the Church to accept it. The rosary does not really fall under "sacred tradition" though. It is a prayer and one that is accepted and even good to do as far as the Church is concerned. It is not required though and it is not part of the "core beliefs" of the Church. When we talk about sacred tradition it refers to those traditions handed down by the Apostles.

I am a convert to Catholicism. I too used to disagree with many of the Catholic traditions, practices and beliefs. As I learned, read, researched and prayed I found myself understanding and being enlightened. I was amazed to find out the truth about the Catholic Church. All that I had assumed was very wrong. I was looking with my eyes and my mind...I thought I knew what I saw. But when I began to look with my soul...in the spirit of Christ, I found the fullness of his grace, love and mercy in the Catholic Church.

Answer 3

People like CJ are what we consider bashers. Look him up in the search box. He's an interesting character. (He says Catholicism is a cult that's based on Babylonian pagans because the goddess Ishtar and Easter sound similar. Totally wrong.)

Just so you know the Bible itself says it's not the only source of Jesus. So if you were truly Sola Scriptura, you wouldn't be Sola Scriptura.

"Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of (his) disciples that are not written in this book." (John 20:30)

There's you scripture CJ. There's more where that came from too. Everything Catholics teach can be found in the bible whether you like it or not.

btw, the rosary is not an official teaching of the Catholic Church. So it's not part of Catholicism. If you don't agree with it, don't say it. It's not a requirement.

The Rosary dates back to Fatima where Mary instruced us to say it. That's why we say it. It's your choice to believe in Fatima or not. The reason why most Catholic Churches incourage this is because the predictions are incredibly accurate. So accurate it's scary. But like I said it's your choice.

Answer 4

Since I was baptized a Catholic, I guess I can answer too, huh? LOL :)

All of your questions and comments have been very respectful, and very thought provoking, which is the point of them. It my prayer that one of them, along with the answers Kait, and others provide, will reach the heart of one Catholic, and they will truly begin to study and see that the Bible does not support their "sacred traditions" as one put it.

By the way, there are "sacred traditions" in wiccan and many other "religions". Does that mean they may be the teachings of Jesus too? The Bible is the absolute word of God. This means that the traditions are simply man made .......

God bless.

Answer 5

Not at all. Everyone has questions about things in the Church. Not just the Catholic Church either.

Answer 6

If you do not fall under the following category you are not bashing Catholics.

Fundamentalism is defined as “the practice of asserting the absolute truth of your own beliefs and practices to the deliberate exclusion of the possibility of truth in the beliefs and practices of others.” It is nothing but bigotry.

Fundamentalists have this "holier than thou" attitude, which gets in your nerves. They always presume to know more about your religion than you do. Fundamentalists talk as if no case could be made for the Catholic faith.

Are they our modern day Pharisees?

How can I bring myself to even respect them? They resort to black propaganda and lies. Here are some examples of their lies and propaganda.

+ The Pope is the Anti-Christ (they have been saying this since Martin Luther made the accusation).

+ The Church is the Whore of Babylon in the book of Revelation

+ Catholics are not Christians

+ Catholics put Mary in the same level as God

+ Catholics worship statues and idols

+ The Catholic teaching on Indulgence is a permission to commit sin

+ The Catholic Church is the Mother of all harlots.

+ Catholics worship Satan

+ The Catholic Church started Islam

Source: Chick Publications and posts on YA, R&SS

If these allegations were true I would be the first to leave the Catholic Church. And to add insult to injury they justify these allegations by saying “we don't want you to go to hell; we love you” which to us is a lame excuse for bashing Catholics. Do they really expect us to fall for that line? Catholics do not bash other religions because we know we belong to the true Church. Bashing Catholicism also shows Fundamentalists are insecure people. If they are so sure about their beliefs why bash Catholicism? They have already told us a million times what they do not like about our faith. And they have also warned us a million times we will go to hell with those beliefs. So, what really is their reason for attacking our faith again and again? Their stance on the Church can only mean they are insecure and unsure of their own faith or they just want to bash the Catholic Church. Perhaps this is also their way of 'converting' people. I hope they realize that when they bash the Catholic Church they also bash and give a bad impression of the Christian faith.

To my fundamentalist brothers & sisters: Jesus said, “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. – Matthew 7, 1-2 (KJV)

Now, for your other question.

We never said Sacred Tradition only comes from Christ. Sacred Tradition is the deposit of faith handed down to us by Christ and the apostles. They are revealed truths from God.

"Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit."

"And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching."

"As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."

Apostolic Tradition and ecclesial traditions

The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and hands on what they received from Jesus' teaching and example and what they learned from the Holy Spirit. The first generation of Christians did not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself demonstrates the process of living Tradition.

Tradition is to be distinguished from the various theological, disciplinary, liturgical or devotional traditions, born in the local churches over time. These are the particular forms, adapted to different places and times, in which the great Tradition is expressed. In the light of Tradition, these traditions can be retained, modified or even abandoned under the guidance of the Church's Magisterium.

So, the rosary then is an ecclesial tradition, which could change over time, and not an apostolic tradition. Apostolic traditions are considered dogmas of the Church and never change; e.g. purgatory, Immaculate Conception, etc.

I hope I have clarified your wrong perceptions about my Church.

Answer 7

if i could see your previous questions i'd know.

it doesn't seem, what the questions i've read of yours, that you don't bash.
If you ended every answer with "catholics go to Hell" then i'd think you were a basher.

As for Rosary, the prayers are rooted in the bible, and the practice of using beads for prayer WAS around in Jesus' time. It wasn't a rosary, but it was instead used to recite Psalms.


lost.eu/21618

Answer 8

Not at all. I questioned Catholicism, still do and became a Buddhist. I was a Catholic for over 25 years. Questioning Catholic tradition is considered almost a form of heresy because the Catholic Church wants absolute authority over and "blind faith" from it's followers. My Mom is still devout Catholic, I would never consider "bashing" her beliefs but I can certainly disagree with and question them!

Answer 9

I was once a Catholic. Not any more.
I think the church could use with a bit of bashing, although intellectually, not physically. After all, the church burned books, held a few crusades like they were bloody parties, and held a real fun one in Europe called the Inquisition. Talk about your original Halloween! Torture racks, whips, water boarding, burning at the stake--the whole enchilada!
"Modern" Catholics like to say that's all in the past, and hopefully the worst of it is. But even in modern times the church has not behaved well. They only recently "forgave" Gallileo for cryin' out loud. And during WWII, church fathers in Rome actually helped Nazi's escape when the Allies looked set to win.

So, bash away, my brother! They've got a thick skin, but let's hope their heads are ready for some good mind wrestling. And maybe some Catholics will begin to see that Catholic ("universal"? ridiculous) history does not recommend it as a helpful way to believe.

Answer 10

You can question Catholic doctrine all you wish but the endless rubbish about Catholics not being saved and not being Christians is demeaning and insulting in the extreme.
CJ falsely states that there is no scriptural bases for Catholicism and this is absolute and infantile stupidity, what he really means is that he plain refuses to accept the truth of the church, if he and others want scripture I will give it to them,but don`t for the sake of decency spout this garbage.