(FOR JW"S) Who is coming?

Question

Zechariah 2:10-12 says, "Cry out loudly and rejoice, O daughter of Zion; for here I AM COMING, and I will reside IN THE MIDST OF YOU", is the utterance of Jehovah...And you will have to know that Jehovah of armies himself has sent me to you. And Jehovah will certainly take possession of Judah...and he must yet choose Jerusalem."
If Jesus and Jehovah are not one and the same God, then how do you explain the fact that Christ is the one who is "coming" and "will reside in the midst of you", but in this passage, Jehovah claims that he is the one who is coming and will reside in there midst?
How do you explain the fact that "Jehovah of armies" is sending him (Jehovah) to reside in their midst?

Im am just looking for your understanding of this view, Thank you.

Answer 1

The example you give is on a par with a similar scripture in Psalms 110:1 and Jesus quoted this to silence his critics who were furious that he claimed to be the Messiah. Jesus said to the Pharisees,

'What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is he?' They said to him, 'The Son of David'. He said to them, 'How then does David in the Spirit call him 'Lord' saying, 'The Lord said to my Lord, 'Sit at my right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool'?' 'If David then calls him 'Lord', how is he his Son?' (Mat 22:41-46)

The Hebrew scriptures contain many indications of just who Messiah would be - far more than just a perfect man! And certainly not a demi-god! Alas, all this is wasted on the JWs. 'There's none so blind as those who don't want to see' goes the old adage. They need much prayer and patient reproof.

Answer 2

Its a Representative presence spoken here such as expressed in other texts, such as Psalm 46:5; 132:13, 14; Isaiah 24:23; Joel 3:21; and Zechariah 2:10, 11, where Jehovah, whom ‘the heaven of the heavens cannot contain,’ is spoken of as though residing in an earthly city or place.—1Ki 8:27.
It is not to be viewed as if someone could go to Jerusalem and actually see Jehovah There.
Jesus is Not Jehovah.
By saying: “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father,” Jesus could not have meant that the apostles were seeing God, the One whom Jesus addressed or spoke of as Father. Many years after Jesus said those words, the apostle John wrote: “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. . . . grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.” (John 1:14, 17, 18, ) By thus declaring God his Father, by explaining him, by giving an account of him, by being and acting like him, Jesus produced the effect that the apostles, by seeing Jesus, saw God his Father also.

Answer 3

20 This very thing was foretold also by the prophet Zechariah, when prophesying in the days of the rebuilding of the temple of Jehovah at Jerusalem. Addressing himself to the temple builders, he said: “Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion; for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith Jehovah. And many nations shall join themselves to Jehovah in that day, and shall be my people.”—Zech. 2:10, 11, AS.

It is not reasonable to say that when someone says “I am coming” that that person is either Jesus or Jehovah God. So for you to say that Jesus and Jehovah are the same God because Jehovah or Jesus both says “I am coming” is wrong. Yes, they can be both are coming, but it doesn’t mean that they are the the same God. Please see John 5:7 where a diseased man says “I am coming” too. Is that man God because he said “I am coming”?


. Jesus is the Son of our God The Father, Jehovah. They are not the same person. Jehovah is"our Father" in heaven. See Isa 63:16. Even the Trinitarian doctrine states that the Son is NOT the Father. Isa 63:16 states that Jehovah is "Our Father" (Not the Son) so this differentiates Jehovah from Jesus.


When sending out his followers to preach Jesus said: “He that receives you receives me also, and he that receives me receives him also that sent me forth.” (Matt. 10:40, NW)

Are Jesus and his followers one person or same Son of God?

When Samuel was Jehovah’s appointed judge over Israel the people came requesting a king instead of a judge. Samuel was displeased when they said: “Give us a king to judge us.” But Jehovah told Samuel: “They have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me.” (1 Sam. 8:4-7, AS) In rejecting Jehovah’s representative they rejected Jehovah, in effect; but this did not make Samuel one with Jehovah in a trinity.

When someone rejects God's representative, esp His Son,
those who reject the reprentative, rejects God.

It doesn't mean that they are the same person or the same God.

Answer 4

Are we to suppose that God gives himself orders and then carries them out? Is that what the questioner believes?

To reiterate, the verse you cited says: "And you will have to know that Jehovah of armies himself has SENT ME to you."

Nearly 50 times in the book of John alone, Jesus said that his Father sent him forth into the world as his representative. That is not a hard concept to grasp, is it? Jesus said many times to the disbelieving Jews that he did not come down from heaven on his own initiative. God gave his Son a command, and Jesus obeyed his Father's orders. It is that simple. And because Jesus is in the exact image of Jehovah, it can rightly be said that Jehovah was in our midst when Christ walked among us.

Furthermore, Jesus plainly said: "A slave is not greater than his master, nor is one that is sent forth greater than the one that sent him." Since it is beyond dispute that Jesus was taking orders from Jehovah God when he was sent forth by his Father, why do Trinitarians blasphemously claim that God orders himself around?

Answer 5

Where does it say "Jesus" or "Christ" in the scripture that you quoted?

Just to clarify, Jehovah IS God. Jesus is Jesus...God's son.

Answer 6

go to the official website of Jehovah's Witnesses http://watchtower.org

and go to tik_of_totg's group site for more info
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions-and_answers/?m=0

Zechariah 2:10-12
10 “Cry out loudly and rejoice, O daughter of Zion; for here I am coming, and I will reside in the midst of you,” is the utterance of Jehovah. 11 “And many nations will certainly become joined to Jehovah in that day, and they will actually become my people; and I will reside in the midst of you.” And you will have to know that Jehovah of armies himself has sent me to you. 12 And Jehovah will certainly take possession of Judah as his portion upon the holy ground, and he must yet choose Jerusalem.

What Does the Messiah's Coming Mean to You?
Do We Need a Messiah?
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20060215/article_01.htm

YOU might well ask that question, “Do we need a Messiah?” Yes, it would be logical to wonder whether a Messiah would have any real effect on you.

Some whose opinion you may respect would assure you that the answer is clear and unequivocal: You definitely do need a Messiah, just as much as everyone else does. An expert in Jewish law in the first century wrote of the Messiah: “No matter how many the promises of God are, they have become Yes by means of him.” He thus highlighted the key role that the Messiah plays in our Creator’s purpose to bless all nations of the earth. (2 Corinthians 1:20) The Messiah’s function is so vital that his arrival and life are the focus of Bible prophecy. In a handbook used by millions over the last 70 years, Henry H. Halley asserted: “The Old Testament was written to create an anticipation of, and pave the way for, the Coming of [the Messiah].” But is his coming necessary? Why should you be concerned?

“Messiah” actually means “Anointed One” and is the equivalent of the well-known term “Christ.” This One, whom the Encyclopædia Britannica, 1970 Edition, refers to as “the ultimate redeemer,” had to come because of the irreverent actions of the first human pair, Adam and Eve. They were created perfect, with the delightful prospect of endless life in Paradise, but they lost that prospect. A rebellious angel, who became known as Satan the Devil, suggested that their Creator was too restrictive and that they would fare better by deciding for themselves what was good and what was bad.—Genesis 3:1-5.

Eve was deceived and believed that lie. Adam, apparently valuing his wife’s companionship above loyalty to God, became an accomplice in that Devil-instigated rebellion. (Genesis 3:6; 1 Timothy 2:14) By their actions, they did more than forfeit their own prospect of endless life in paradisaic surroundings. They bequeathed to their unborn offspring sin and its consequence, death.—Romans 5:12.

Our Creator, Jehovah, immediately determined the means to reverse the evil effects of the chain of events set in motion by the rebellion. He would accomplish a reconciliation by means of what would later be a legal principle in the Mosaic Law—like for like. (Deuteronomy 19:21; 1 John 3:8) This legal principle had to be satisfied if any of Adam and Eve’s hapless descendants were ever to receive endless life on a paradise earth, as the Creator had purposed for the human family. This leads us to the Messiah.

When sentencing the Devil, Jehovah God declared in the first Bible prophecy: “I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.” (Genesis 3:15) One Bible scholar noted that “the story of the messianic promises as the Scriptures present it begins with [this] statement.” Another observed that the Messiah is God’s instrument that “will reverse the whole calamity of the fall,” bringing blessings to mankind in the process.—Hebrews 2:14, 15.

You may sense, though, that mankind at present is far from being blessed. Instead, the human race is mired in hopelessness and despair. Thus, The World Book Encyclopedia says that “many Jews still expect a Messiah to come” and that he “will correct wrongs and defeat the enemies of the people.” However, the Bible says that the Messiah has already come. Is there reason to believe what the Bible says? The following article will answer.

What Does the Messiah's Coming Mean to You?
“We Have Found the Messiah”
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20060215/article_02.htm
“WE HAVE found the Messiah.” “We have found the one of whom Moses, in the Law, and the Prophets wrote.” Two devoted first-century Jews made those startling announcements. At last, the hoped-for Messiah had arrived. They were convinced!—John 1:35-45.

When you think about it, given the historical and religious backdrop of that time, their conviction is all the more significant. A number of would-be liberators appeared amid great fanfare and promise, but hopes were soon dashed as such men failed to deliver the Jews from the Roman yoke.—Acts 5:34-37.

However, those two Jews—Andrew and Philip—never wavered in their conviction that they had found the true Messiah. Rather, in the following years, their confidence increased as they personally witnessed the powerful works that this man performed in fulfillment of the features of the Messiah’s role.

Why did these two and many others put faith in him, convinced that he was not just a counterfeit Messiah or a disappointing fraud? What were the credentials that made him convincingly the genuine Messiah?

According to the historical account, Andrew and Philip identified Jesus of Nazareth, the former carpenter, as the promised and long-awaited Messiah. (John 1:45) A careful historian of that era, Luke, states that this coming of the Messiah occurred “in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar.” (Luke 3:1-3) That 15th year of Tiberius’ reign began in September of 28 C.E. and ended in September of 29 C.E. Luke further states that the Jews at this time “were in expectation” of the Messiah’s arrival. (Luke 3:15) Why was he expected at that particular time? We shall see.

Messianic Credentials

Considering the Messiah’s vital role, you can appreciate that the Creator, Jehovah, would logically provide definite clues to assist the watchful and faithful ones to identify the promised Messiah. Why? Because in that way, careful individuals would not be deceived by impostors, as so many people were.

When presenting himself to another government, an ambassador is expected to confirm his appointment with the necessary credentials. Similarly, Jehovah had recorded well in advance the requirements that the Messiah would meet. Thus, when “the Chief Agent” appeared, it would be as if he came with documentation, or credentials, that would confirm his identity.—Hebrews 12:2.

The requirements that the credentials would have to match were set out in many Bible prophecies written centuries beforehand. They foretold in minute detail the manner of the Messiah’s coming, the nature of his ministry, his suffering at the hands of others, and the type of death he would experience. You may be interested in knowing that those reliable prophecies also foretold his resurrection, his exaltation to the right hand of God, and finally the blessings his future Kingdom rule would bring. In this way, Bible prophecies provided a unique pattern that might be likened to a fingerprint, which can identify only one person.

Of course, when Jesus appeared on the scene in 29 C.E., not all Messianic prophecies were fulfilled then and there. For example, he had not yet been put to death and resurrected. Nevertheless, Andrew, Philip, and many others put faith in Jesus because of what he taught and did. They saw abundant proof that he was, in fact, the Messiah. If you had lived back then and could have studied the evidence firsthand with an open mind, you too would probably have been convinced that Jesus was the Messiah.

A Composite Picture

What would have helped you reach that conclusion? Over the centuries, Bible prophets supplied specific requirements that the Messiah would have to meet, identifying him unmistakably. As the prophets supplied these details over the centuries, a picture of the Messiah gradually emerged. Henry H. Halley observed: “Suppose a number of men of Different Countries, who had never seen, nor in any way communicated with, one another, would walk into a room, and each lay down a piece of Carved Marble, which pieces, when Fitted Together, would make a Perfect statue—how account for it in any other way than that Some One Person had drawn the Specifications, and had sent to each man his part?” He then asks: “How can this Amazing Composite of Jesus’ Life and Work, put together by Different Writers of Different Centuries, Ages Before Jesus Came, be explained on any other basis than that ONE SUPERHUMAN MIND supervised the Writing?” Halley concluded that it was “The Miracle of the Ages!”

This “miracle” began in the first book of the Bible. In addition to the first Bible prophecy that indicated the role of the Messiah, the writer of Genesis recorded that the Messiah would come through Abraham’s line of descent. (Genesis 3:15; 22:15-18) Another clue revealed that the Messiah would be of the tribe of Judah. (Genesis 49:10) God told the Israelites through Moses that the Messiah would be a greater spokesman and deliverer than even Moses.—Deuteronomy 18:18.

During King David’s time, prophecy revealed that the Messiah would be David’s heir to the throne and that His kingdom would be “firmly established to time indefinite.” (2 Samuel 7:13-16) The book of Micah disclosed that the Messiah would be born in David’s town, Bethlehem. (Micah 5:2) Isaiah foretold that He would be born of a virgin. (Isaiah 7:14) The prophet Malachi predicted that His coming would be heralded by someone like Elijah.—Malachi 4:5, 6.

A further defining Messianic detail appeared in the book of Daniel. Pinpointing the very year of the Messiah’s appearance, the prophecy states: “You should know and have the insight that from the going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks. She will return and be actually rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in the straits of the times.”—Daniel 9:25.

Persian King Artaxerxes gave “the word” to restore and rebuild Jerusalem in the 20th year of his reign. His reign began in 474 B.C.E., so his 20th year would be 455 B.C.E. (Nehemiah 2:1-8) Thus, a period of 69 (7 plus 62) prophetic weeks would separate the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem and the appearance of the Messiah. Sixty-nine literal weeks, of course, equal only 483 days, or less than two years. But when the stated prophetic rule of “a day for a year” is applied, it reveals that the Messiah would appear 483 years later, in 29 C.E.—Ezekiel 4:6.*

Although a number of Messianic claimants appeared at various times, Jesus of Nazareth appeared on the world scene in 29 C.E. (Luke 3:1, 2) In that very year, Jesus came to John the Baptizer and was baptized in water. Jesus was then anointed with holy spirit as the Messiah. Later, John, the foretold Elijahlike forerunner, introduced Jesus to Andrew and another disciple, calling Him “the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.”—John 1:29; Luke 1:13-17; 3:21-23.

Genealogy and Messiah’s Identification

The inspired prophecies linked the Messiah to particular Jewish families. So it is only reasonable that the omniscient Creator would arrange the Messiah’s coming at a time when the genealogical records were available to verify his ancestry.

McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia states: “There can be little doubt that the registers of the Jewish tribes and families perished at the destruction of Jerusalem [in 70 C.E.], and not before.” There are clear indications that Matthew and Luke wrote their Gospels before 70 C.E. Hence, they could have consulted these records in compiling their accounts of Jesus’ ancestry. (Matthew 1:1-16; Luke 3:23-38) And surely on an issue of such momentous importance, many of their contemporaries would have wanted to verify Jesus’ ancestry for themselves.
A Chance Fulfillment in Jesus?

Still, is it possible that Jesus’ fulfilling Messianic prophecies was mere coincidence? In an interview, one scholar answered: “Not a chance. The odds are so astronomical that they rule that out. Someone did the math and figured out that the probability of just eight prophecies being fulfilled is one chance in one hundred million billion.” Putting those odds in perspective, he stated: “If you took this number of silver dollars, they would cover the state of Texas [an area of 266,807 square miles] to a depth of two feet. If you marked one silver dollar among them and then had a blindfolded person wander the whole state and bend down to pick up one coin, what would be the odds he’d choose the one that had been marked?” He then stated that those are “the same odds that anybody in history could have fulfilled just eight of the [Messianic] prophecies.”

Yet, during his three-and-a-half-year ministry, Jesus fulfilled not just eight but many Bible prophecies. In view of such overwhelming evidence, that scholar concluded: “Jesus—and only Jesus throughout all of history—managed to do it.”
Messiah’s “Coming”

Clearly, the Messiah came in 29 C.E. in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. That was his coming as a humble, suffering Redeemer. He did not come as an all-conquering King to break the oppressive yoke of the Romans, as most Jews and even his followers seemed to have expected. (Isaiah, chapter 53; Zechariah 9:9; Acts 1:6-8) His future coming, however, was foretold to be with power and great authority.—Daniel 2:44; 7:13, 14.

A careful study of Bible prophecies has convinced reasoning people around the globe that the Messiah came in the first century and that he was to return. Evidence establishes that his foretold return, the beginning of his “presence,” occurred in 1914.# (Matthew 24:3-14) In that year, Jesus was invisibly enthroned in the heavens as the King of God’s Kingdom. Shortly, he will act to rid the earth of the effects of the rebellion in Eden. His subsequent Thousand Year Reign will bless all those manifesting faith in him as the promised Seed, the Messiah, who “takes away the sin of the world.”—John 1:29; Revelation 21:3, 4.

Jehovah’s Witnesses would be happy to discuss with you that evidence and to point out from the Bible what the Messiah’s rule can mean for you and your loved ones

(click on the links to check out the pictures)