Can you Christians help me understand why you believe this way? Fellow Atheists chime in too!?

Question

Every day I'm on the board here, or I hear on TV, or read about, or hear a Christian say one or more of the following (or a close approximation):

1) You cannot know happiness without Jesus/God.
2) You cannot have morals without Jesus/God.
3) You cannot have values without Jesus/God.
4) You cannot truely love without Jesus/God.
5) You cannot live an honest life without Jesus/God.

I just wondered how Christians can possibly know these things about my life when none of them know me well enough to make these assumptions.
Both my wife and I are atheist. We are very happy together. We are honest with one another. We support and love one another. We are faithful to one another.
We have great dreams and aspirations for our future together. We also respect the environment and our neighbors.

And we do all this without the need or acceptance in a god or gods. How can we have such a wonderful life if what you say is true?
Perhaps you don't know any better other people's lives?

Answer 1

Its a tough thing to understand.

As a former Born Again Christian, I look back and realize that I did exactly the same thing to people. I am ashamed of that behavior now.

Here is how it would work....

Since I was very young, I was taught by my parents that God created me specifically, and that he had a purpose for my life. That doctrine attached itself to my sense of ego and value to life. It made me feel unique and divinely inspired. Because of that I believed that God had to exist, because that was why I was special, and why my life had meaning.

If God didn't exist, then I wasn't unique and there was no purpose/meaning for my life. That indoctrination made its way throughout my thought patterns and drove my belief.

So,
1. I couldn't be happy without a God, who gave me meaning.
2. Without God there was no reason to have morals, because there wouldn't be meaning to life.
3. My entire sense of self worth was tied up in the existence of God, and if he didn't exist, I coulnd't have values.
4. Without meaning there was no reason for Love in life.
5. Honesty wouldn't matter either.

Believing that my existence was directly tied to the existence of God, created these thought patterns, and in turn I transferred them to others.

I couldn't imagine how an Atheist could have moral virtue or a sense of duty, or love or meaning in life, without believing that God existed. Because that is what I had been indoctrinated to believe.

Atheists were threatening to me, because I truly believed that they were a bunch of depressed humans that were just fighting against God. I TRULY believed that, as most of the Christians reading this do as well.

It wasn't until I was able to get out of the dangerous thought patterns that religious belief created that I realized that my life has value beyond my belief, and that I have the ability to creat purpose and happiness, and make the world a better place for those around me. Until then, I had be lied to, and thought that a loss of faith would cause me to jump into orgies and theft rings.

It is a sad way to live.

Answer 2

if you take the time to read the gospel, you will find that none of these 5 things you list are any part of what a christian is suppose to go and preach.

many well meaning people get ideas in their head and come up with stuff like this. ignor it.

I have been a christian for many years and I have people tell me that if Jesus was more in my life, then.

No, we are all called to certain things, the love, happiness values and such are possible without Jesus, but even having Christ does not mean you will have happiness all the time.

Christianity is a call to serve God. Joy is not the absence of suffering but the presence of God.

in the world the christian is suppose to be persecuted and to some degree they are, but the facts of daily living are pretty uniform to all people. Christians just go through life with Christ, but they still get cancer, get hit by cars die in war and suffer with the rest of humanity

Answer 3

As a Christian I am glad you have a great life, I think a lot of athiest have morals and are honest, but you are walking in darkness of the spirit, your life could be even better by knowing you are saved from the second death. First John 1:22 Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is an anti-Christ, that denies the Father and the Son. You have no future if you are not blessed to escape the second death.

Answer 4

I can't remember seeing anyone ever say any of those things, but I have to admit that I would tend to tune it out if they did. Obviously, none of those statements are true, so I can't really help you with why some people believe them. (I do agree with you that some believe one or more of them.) For me, it's not a matter of what kind of life or afterlife I live. It's simply that I believe Christianity provides the best explanation for the observed universe. It also provides a purpose for it, which otherwise would be lacking. The last is not essential, but it's nice.

And I'm sure you and your wife are very nice people.

Answer 5

A lot of us had been non-believers before and when we
were, we thought just like you!
The thing is that being separate from God is like looking
at life with one eye or even half of one eye.
We are not just physical/emotional beings, we are
also spiritual beings and once a person realizes that,
the world and eternity and it's purpose looks so much
different. "Different IS Good" in this case!
Life takes on another dimention, in other words!
The love of God is purpose, everything else has
a limit and end, what is eternal is most important.

Knowledge = power (and pride)
Wisdom = perspective (better)
Love (God's love) = purpose and redemption (best)

I hope that helped - at least to understand
where we are coming from (if that is possible)

----------------

When I read the things the former Born Again Christian wrote,
I noticed that he never saw these things for himself, just
followed others and reasoned - it got into his "thought
pattern" but not to his heart or spirit - he chooses the
ignorance of the world instead of choosing God who works
all things out for the good to eternity. His "reasoning"
is faulty as is all of our reasoning - foolish and selfish
naturally.

Answer 6

I think you're reading too far into it. Yes, there are alot of wacko Christians out there who would say those things but they're wackos.

Personally, I believe you cannot know true happiness unless you know Christ. I don't believe you can true love without knowing Christ. After all, he displayed his love for us by shedding his blood for us. Laying your life down for another is, in my opinion, the greatest love.

Saying you can't have morals/values without knowing Christ is nonsense. You're an example--I'm sure you have great morals and you're a respectable person. However--we wouldn't even have morals if it weren't for God. Think about it: What separates us from animals? The answer to that is that humans can determine right from wrong. Animals can't. God made us in his image and he provided us with the knowledge of right from wrong and he gave us the desire to have morals and values.

I don't think you have to be a born-again Christian to have morals, absolutely not. But you have to remember where values and morals started in the first place---those didn't evolve.

Anyway, those are just my opinions.

Answer 7

As an atheist, I applaud the attempt you are making. But I feel I must point something out. ** From the point of view of an atheist, it is unfair that someone like Jack the Ripper could make it to heaven, and yet a good person who didn't believe in God would go to hell. ** Actually, we don't think it is "unfair," we think the very idea is ludicrous. Also, we don't think that Heaven, Hell, or God exist. So there is no one to send people anywhere.

Answer 8

Happiness is only skin deep! errr ahh?

I can't speak for those who have gone before, but I'm sure they think they know what they are talking about.

I, on the other hand know not what I say.

But if the spirit of God was guiding me I'm sure I wouldn't say most of what you say you've heard.

Have them describe,which love they mean and ask them if they exhibit Agape (God's kinda love).
Ask them for a definition of happiness, and ask them if they mean the Joy that only Jesus brings,
"I give you joy and peace of mind , but not the kind the world gives.) (New Gypsy Priest version)

They probably mean something like that.

Gypsy Priest

Answer 9

The 1 and 4th are true however 2,3,and 5th aren't someone who isnt in Christ can live a perfectly kind moral and valueable way of life and not be a christain

the 1st and 4th are true because Jesus is the ultimate source of happiness...think about your best friend that took your beating just because he loves you...would you not be happy that he was your friend.....and the 4th...(same example) eoulf you not truely love this friend for the rest of your life???
Thats just my sentiment

Answer 10

well to begin, i don't think its the fact that one can not do what you listed above. it's the fact that to be at true peace with yourself and to have an answer to your questions (in life) you need to look to a higher source. we as humans are very intelligent creatures however we don't know they ourselves. be honest for a minute, do you think that if you created something and you knew the best way for it to operate and what it should do or not, then all of a sudden it told you it did not need, want or respected you. how would that make you feel? we as humans need god's help to live and be at peace with each other. look at all the political parties that have tired to bring about peace. all have failed. the reason being is because we need that higher source.