predestination? how can it be anything else?

Question

every person in every decision choses the option they think will make their life better. when confronted with a fork in the road, no one opts for the path that they think will lead to an unhappier life.

how do we make decisions? based on our intelligence, reasoning, logic....all things we received genetically. so...no alternate decisions could have ever been made in your past. unless you made a decision where you tried to make your life worse.....

god knows how we die...when we die....and what we accomplished even as we discuss this. our life is already come and gone in his eyes.

so why do people think we have free will? no one thinks they can prove free will, do they? prove you could have made any other decision than to read this. you couldn't have. this is the only thing you possibly could be doing right now. there was no other way. you were predestined to read my words.

drug addiction...even bad decisions are made because the user is trying to better his life. he might be mistaken...he might be sacrificing lasting happiness for immediate happiness...but he is not trying to make his life worse. no one (maybe i'm wrong) tries to do things that will lead to an increase in unhappiness.

Answer 1

And apparently I was predestined to disagree, man. If you think that people only make decisions that better their lives, you don't know people very well. Drug addiction for example: it takes a decision every day to continue the same self-destructive behavior, doesn't it? Or are you implying that it's God's will?

You're right Jeff--many might be looking for comfort in the moment rather than thinking long term, but they know that they aren't doing what is the best thing for them.

What about fears? Is the fear of a dentist a good reason not to go to one? Is that really in your best interest? I'm just not seeing it, man.

Answer 2

Bible teaches that God has predestined all things before the foundation of the world. And, His eternal decree is not conditioned by any act of human will.

However, God's predestination does not preclude human responsibility. On contrary, our actions show forth what God has predestined before the foundation of the world.

Though man has the free will, however its bondage to sin. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, had wholly lost all ability of will to do any spiritual good accompanying salvation.

Though man has free will to choose good or evil, man always chooses what God has predestined.

Judah Iscariot exercised his free will by betraying Jesus to the cross; nevertheless, Judah by his (free will) action fulfilled what God had predestined before the foundation of world; “Jesus the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of world.”

Answer 3

You are so ignorant. Of course we make decisions based on reasoning, logic etc, if someone walked into a wall when they could easily have gone round it would you say 'Oh they were predestined to do that you know' What a load of rubbish.

Answer 4

The Catholic dogma of predestination keeps the golden mean, because it regards eternal happiness primarily as the work of God and His grace, but secondarily as the fruit and reward of the meritorious actions of the predestined. The process of predestination consists of the following five steps: (a) the first grace of vocation, especially faith as the beginning, foundation, and root of justification; (b) a number of additional, actual graces for the successful accomplishment of justification; (c) justification itself as the beginning of the state of grace and love; (d) final perseverance or at least the grace of a happy death; (e) lastly, the admission to eternal bliss. If it is a truth of Revelation that there are many who, following this path, seek and find their eternal salvation with infallible certainty, then the existence of Divine predestination is proved (cf. Matthew 25:34; Revelation 20:15). St. Paul says quite explicitly (Romans 8:28 sq.): "we know that to them that love God, all things work together unto good, to such as, according to his purpose, are called to be saints. For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son; that he might be the first born amongst many brethren. And whom he predestinated, them he also called. And whom he called, them he also justified. And whom he justified, them he also glorified." (Cf. Ephesians 1:4-11) Besides the eternal "foreknowledge" and foreordaining, the Apostle here mentions the various steps of predestination: "vocation", "justification", and "glorification". This belief has been faithfully preserved by Tradition through all the centuries, especially since the time of Augustine.
The notion that God has already hand picked those to be with Him in Heaven is therefore wrong and goes against the whole mission of Christ,but also God Who see`s all and knows all can observe in one glance all the people`s of time and place who will accept His salvation.

Answer 5

I have no reason to suppose that the future exists, so I don't think it's knowable even to a hypothetical god, and that means it certainly isn't predestined.

Answer 6

He predestined His plan of salvation. You still have a personal choice and the resulting consequences.

Answer 7

You have been listening to way too many fundamentalist fairy tales. I heartily discourage you to do that.

God does not know the future because there is nothing to know until it happens. Our life have certainly NOT come and gone in his eyes.

All God's children, with the exception of the mentally ill, have free choice.

Answer 8

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are my ways your ways, says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the Earth so are my ways higher than your ways, my thoughts than your thoughts."

While I cannot disagree with most everything you have said, especially about the part about reading what you wrote - keen insight (and since you are aware that God is pretty much in control of all of us, inspired by Him as well), I chimed in because in your diatribe, there is one thing that can be disputed. It is possible to understand what this free will is about. However what it takes to understand this has not been taught for 2,000 years.

Free will, like truth and for that matter, overriding everything else, God, has to be sought out. Actually there is even more to it than just that, but I fear it is beyond the scope of this forum. Nevertheless, understanding free will and its application in your life, how to exercise it for what it was given to certain men (not all) and women for, cannot be understood through any other means than by practicing the religion that was taught by Jesus Christ known as the Way. This religion has not been practiced since the churches of the Roman Empire of the first century, regardless of what modern day organized religion would have you try to believe.

This is one of the many reasons that God sent Jesus to Earth to begin with, and that is to hook up those with God, those who God predestined to be given eternal life. The Bible is quite clear about this. You know, the Chosen Ones. Yep, everything is predestined, you are correct. Jesus taught his disciples (pause-Selah) what their minds were all about, how to use them the way God designed, for the purpose of ultimately being added to the ever-growing Kingdom of God.

Romans 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you. 13 for if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live (forever).14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

I read your question because it was predetermined to do so, a fact I gladly accept, and work into my daily life. You are receiving my response because it was predetermined as well.

But so that we don't get too heady here, I refer to Psalm 131 for both of our benefits.

O LORD, my heart is not lifted up, my eyes are not raised too high; I do not occupy myself with things too great and too marvelous for me.

And while I am at it, allow me to offer you a few more for you to ponder.

1 Corinthians 2:10 God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
11 For what person knows a man's thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might understand the gifts bestowed on us by God. 13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit.14 The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.15 The spiritual man judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

One of many questions that I had asked myself, that I am glad to say was answered, was "How can I become like the ones that Paul was addressing in this letter to the Corinthians?"