What does it mean if a dog trainer says this?

Question

I sent an e-mail to my dog's prospective future trainer, inquiring about his methods. My dog had recently graduated from a class that taught positive reinforcement and clicker training, and in response to my question, he responded: I don't teach clicker-training in class, but try to draw from lots of different methods to figure out the most effective approach for each person/dog. I do use treat rewards, but try to wean off those a quickly as possible so that the dogs understand they need to respond even if treats aren't available. I use other rewards (attention, play, etc.) as much as possible and gentle correction when needed.

Does this mean he does not use positive reinforcement? My dog (when hit or punished) will react badly. I'm not sure what to think of this response.

Thanks!

Answer 1

Sounds to me like he tries to tailor his training methods to suit each dog/owner, which to me makes more sense than a one-size-fits-all approach.

Attention and play are positive reinforcement. I agree with him that overuse of treats leads to a dog who won't do anything unless there's a treat. And while I don't disagree with clicker-training, there will be situations where you will need your dog to respond to a voice-command without other reinforcement.

Keep in mind that there's a difference between "correction" and "punishment" ... although correction is not a "positive reinforcement", it isn't meant to hurt the dog, only to get him from the incorrect behavior to the behavior that you want.

If you're unsure whether you want to take training with this person, ask if you can sit in on one of his classes first. Not sure if he'll allow it, but you can ask. Good Luck!

Answer 2

This doesn't necessarily mean that he does not use positive reinforcement. Non-treat rewards such as play, toys, even attention can sometimes be far more effective than treats. No one method will work well for every dog or owner. Positive methods and operant conditioning does work well for training pretty much anyone or anything...but there are other forms of positive training/operative conditioning besides clicker training. My trainer does not believe in clicker training for obedience because she doesn't want a dog to have to guess at what behavior the owner is looking for when they train the dog...but she doesn't use harsh punishment in any form and has dismissed people from her class for hitting their dogs. Honestly, I tend to agree with her on this one. Clickers can be extremely useful for very complex tricks, but I personally prefer other methods for simple behaviors and basic obedience. I do use a clicker to mark behaviors that I am looking for but I tend to use the clicker more for fine tuning behaviors my dogs already know than to train new behaviors.

Bottom line, go observe a class or two to get a feel for his training methods. Just because he doesn't use clicker training doesn't mean he isn't using positive training methods. And keep in mind that no one can force you to do anything to your dog that you don't want to do. If he suggests hitting your dog or giving a harsh collar correction or anything else you know will cause your dog to react badly, simply tell him no thank you.

Answer 3

No he said he used positive reinforcement. He said that he rewards with treats and when he no longer does that he uses gentle correction. Maybe a small smack on the nose. But he didn't say that he will hit the dog hard. You can probably sit in with the trainer while he trains the dog. This will help you learn the techniques and also have your dog more comfortable.

Answer 4

NOT AT ALL!!! This trainer uses sense, not treats to train these dogs. Treats ARE a neccessity in some cases and for some instances. But nothing but a disobediant dog is more annoying than one who comes and puts it's nose in your pocket looking for treats. The treats should be a random reward not an expected outcome for a behavior.

To a dog "attention and play" are the next best thing to treats for positive reinforcement, and they have fewer side effects than the treat every time he sits approach. By attention, he could mean an affrectionate scratch. Or he could mean verbal praise, or both.

Any dog trainer who violently hits or punishes animals will go out of business QUICK. However there has to be some negative consequences for certain negative behaviors. Just look at how screwed up our kids have become since we quit allowing teachers to give swats. If you baby and shelter everyone from the reaity of "consequence" you will get out of control behavior and failure to maintain control. Be it human or canine prodigy.

Ask around town, and ask the trainer for references. If he is any good, you'll get some "miracle" stories in a matter of minutes. Good Luck

Answer 5

You don't say that the trainer doesn't use positive reinforcement, but that he does not use a clicker. Treats, play and attention ARE positive reinforcement. Gentle correction does not mean hitting the dog. It usually means a quick tug on his collar and a deep tone of voice. I myself don't really like clicker training, except for cats.

Answer 6

You know it all sounds very good up to the "gentle correction" part--ask specifically what ALL his correction methods are. Some trainers think that choke collars and their medieval cousin the prong choke collars are gentle corrections. Both of these cause damage to the dog's internal neck structures and organs.

Positive reinforcement with attention and play is excellent. But it seems to me that YOU need to train your dog to accept attention and play instead of a food treat as a result of hearing the clicker first (if he only thinks food is coming when he hears the clicker, that is.)

Answer 7

I don't think that's what he means at all. It sounds like he tries a more personal method to each dog. All dogs are different and should be trained differently and it sounds like he takes that into consideration. By saying he tries to ween them off treats, he actually is doing you a favor. If a dog only listens when they're going to get a treat then they'll be overweight. He's trying to show them that your positive attention is a reward in itself and something for that dog to work for. He sounds like a great trainer. No trainer should physically punish a dog. However, to train a dog you sometimes have to punish them by crating them or what not. That's normal. It doesn't sound like he uses physical punishment to me.

Answer 8

He said he uses positive reinforcement, like treats, but weans off them. You can't train with treats forever. You do not want a dog that will only sit or come if you have a treat in your hand. He is subsitiuting treats with attention and play.
A "gentle correction" is not hitting or punishment.

Answer 9

this what i think it means. He tries different methods with your dog, he sees which one works for him,say he works good with treat reward he adventually takes the treats away and uses other methods like playing, petting him so on.. Yes it is positive training. I would go with this trainer i like the way he tries different things to see what works better. I wish you the best of luck!

Answer 10

I have enjoyed bringing my dog to different trainers in my area. All have a different approach and I learn something from each of them. Some are purely positive reinforcement and others, in addition, use some kind of aversion to get or change behaviors. The bottomline is that if any of them want me to do something with or to my dog that I am uncomfortable with they need to explain their rationale to me, and if makes sense to me than I'll go with it. Otherwise no one does anything to my dog that I believe will erode the trust my dogs have in me.

Enjoy your dog!
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