Jehovah's Witnesses, I was wondering about the 144,000 that you say are going to heaven?

Question

You teach that only a 144,000 of God's chosen ones will go to heaven..You teach that it is not 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel..Right?
I was reading, and wondering about Matthew 19: 27-28..Its says..
(27) Peter answered him , "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?" (28)Jesus said to them," I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Doesn't these scripturers point to the direction that the 144,000 in Rev. will be 12,000 from the 12 tribes.?

by tannerpr..That information from the WT you quoted is very hard to understand and is quite complicated. I am still not seeing how you come to the conclusion that you guys believe. I remember studing the WT and other publications of JW's many times, at the Kingdom Hall and it was just like that..Hard to understand and coming away not know what the heck I just read and never understood it.

Havercha...I hope that you will check back..Please if you do..read what the JW's have commented about the 144,00 in Rev. and add to your answers in response to this..If you don't mind..I would like your thoughts. Thank you.

Answer 1

Hi Lisa,
This is just another of the teachings that label the Watch Tower Society as false teachers.
The first mention of the 144000 is in Revelation 7. There are several reasons that this is a figurative and not a literal number. "Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads." Revelation 14:1.
Mt. Zion in Jerusalem is about the size of a football field, so it would be impossible to get a literal 144000 people standing in an area of that size!
In Revelation 7 the 144000 are mentioned in conjuction with the 12 tribes of Israel. There are 4 lists of the 12 tribes throughout Scripture, 3 in the Old Testament and this one in the New Testament. The one in Revelation is significant in that there are 2 tribes missing that appear in the other lists, namely Dan and Ephraim. The number 12 is made up by adding the tribe of Levi who previuosly had no inheritance due to their priestly role, and Joseph who does not appear on the other lists because his sons Manasseh and Ephraim do.
Notice in Chapter 14 it refers to the 144000 as having the Lamb's Fathers' name written on their foreheads.
Name in Scripture is often used to describe character.
What Chapter 7 is telling us is that there are 12 character types that will enter through the 12 gates in the Heavenly City, but 2 are missing! Dan was judgmental and a back biter; Ephraim followed after idols and worshiped them instead of God.
As John writes the Book of Revelation he hears, then he sees.
In this case he hears the angel proclaim the number 144000 but he sees a great multitude, "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands," Rev.7:9.
A number of churches are now teaching that Israel will be resurrected just before the end of the world based on this text. They fail to realise that Israel is nowhere mentioned in the Book of Revelation. It was written to the Christian churches in Asia Minor, modern day Turkey, not to the Jews!
The Watch Tower Society, the true name of the organisation behind Jehova's Witnesses is just another of the false prophets that Jesus warned about in Matthew 24.
I hope that this has been of some help to you.
God Bless,
H'chat.

Answer 2

A close examination of Rev. 7:4-8 will show that the 144,000 cannot be the LITERAL tribes of natural Israel:

Rev. 7:4-8: "I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: . . . Judah . . . Reuben . . . Gad . . . Asher . . . Naphtali . . . Manasseh . . . Simeon . . . Levi . . . Issachar . . . Zebulun . . . Joseph . . . Benjamin."

So these cannot be the tribes of natural Israel because there never was a tribe of Joseph, the tribes of Ephraim and Dan are not included in the list here, and the Levites were set aside for service in connection with the temple but were not reckoned as one of the 12 tribes. Also see Numbers 1:4-16.

Rom. 2:28, 29 explains further: "He is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code."

Answer 3

For TRUTH SEEKER - We have no way of knowing who is to survive Armageddon or not. The only prerequisite the Bible set on that is that they have to have a good heart and be willing to be taught and accept what the Bible teaches. If Jehovah God, through his Son, Jesus sees that in an an individual who is not one of Jehovah's Witnesses, then they will survive. If Jehovah God sees that in many individuals who are not Jehovah's Witnesses, they will survive. Jehovah's Witnesses have never said they have the final say so as to who survives and who doesn't. We are not the judge. Jesus Christ is. And he will do a fine job. And any who will survive will be welcomed as worthy of life. All survivors will learn how their deliverance came, through God's Son, Jesus, and will be so grateful to abide by what the Bible teaches. It means their everlasting life. And they will be forever grateful. Questioner - It is not a matter of heaven being full. If Adam and Eve had never sinned, there would never be ANY human who would have stepped foot into heaven. Due to the disobedience of man, God has made an allowance for a small number of select humans to take part in a new government of God's making, called God's kingdom, which will help bring the earth back to the paradise and perfection which it so rightly deserves. Jesus , and this small group of selected humans, will be the ones used by God to see his purpose fulfilled toward the earth and its inhabitants. Adam, while on earth, before his sin, had communication with God. What a privilege he had. And he gave that up when he chose disobedience. So for those who will be selected to live on earth forever, they have this opportunity to become God's children again, right here on earth. And have a wonderful relationship with their heavenly Father, that even surpasses what they can have today as sinful humans. This is what is brought out in Romans 8:21 which states they will be set free from the "enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God." That does not sound like a life with "no hope".

Answer 4

The 144,000 are the spiritual organization that is built upon the 12 apostles.

The 12 apostles that were with Jesus in the upper room on the Passover were merely representative of all of the 144,000, just as the 12 sons of Jacob were representative of the 12 tribes of Israel when Jacob blessed them upon his deathbed. Jesus picked and personally trained the 12 because they were to be the foundation stones of the symbolic 12 tribes of spiritual Israel that was to follow.

That's the way they are symbolized at Revelation 21:14, where it depicts the 12 apostles serving as foundational stones upon which the city of God is built.

Answer 5

Luke 12:32: “Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of
giving you the kingdom.”


Rev. 14:1-3: “I saw, and, look! the Lamb [Jesus Christ] standing upon the Mount Zion [in heaven; see Hebrews 12:22-24], and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. . . . And they are singing as if a new song . . . and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.”

Are the 144,000 only natural Jews?

Rev. 7:4-8: “I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-
four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: . . . Judah . . .
Reuben . . . Gad . . . Asher . . . Naphtali . . . Manasseh . . . Simeon . . . Levi . . . Issachar . . . Zebulun . . . Joseph . . . Benjamin.”

(These cannot be the tribes of natural Israel because there never was a tribe of
Joseph, the tribes of Ephraim and Dan are not included in the list here, and the Levites were set aside for service in connection with the temple but were not reckoned as one of the 12 tribes. See Numbers 1:4-16.)


Rom. 2:28, 29: “He is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision
that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the
inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written
code.”

Gal. 3:26-29: “You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus.
. . . There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there
is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in union with Christ Jesus.
Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with
reference to a promise.”

Answer 6

You have to remember that Israel means the annoited christians that are chosen to rulw with Jesus, not the Natural Israel that rejected him according to Acts 10:34-35 God is not partial with any nations but all people that obey him he accepted, the jews stopped being the God¨s people in Year 36 when finished the covenant according to Daniel 9:24-27.

Today none of the Jews have the genealogy to claim that they belong to ceratin tribe.

Answer 7

“The Re-Creation”

10 However, is this “new creation” starting with Jesus Christ the only “new” thing that appears “under the sun”? Not at all! While still here on earth, Jesus told his disciples: “Truly I say to you, In the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down upon his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also yourselves sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” (Matthew 19:28) The “little flock” of Jesus’ tried and proved disciples—144,000 of them—are thus invited to share with Jesus in his Kingdom and “sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.”—Luke 12:32; 22:28-30; Revelation 14:1-5.

11 Who, then, are these “twelve tribes”? The arrangement that Jehovah made for the Atonement Day in ancient Israel provides a clue. Each year, on the tenth day of the seventh month, the high priest was required to sacrifice a bull as a sin-offering “in behalf of himself and his house.” This pictured Jesus’ sacrifice as applied to “his house” of underpriests. But what of other Israelites? The high priest next drew lots over two goats. One of these he slaughtered as “the goat of the sin offering, which is for the people.” After confessing the people’s sins over the second goat, he sent it away into the wilderness. The disposal of these two goats thus pictured Jesus’ pouring out his lifeblood in sacrifice and his completely carrying away the sins of all mankind other than those of his priestly house.—Leviticus 16:6-10, 15.

12 “The twelve tribes of Israel” have the same significance at Matthew 19:28. Here the application broadens out beyond Jesus’ spirit-begotten underpriests to include all others of mankind. An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, by W. E. Vine, defines the Greek word here used for “re-creation,” pa·lin·ge·ne·si′a, as “new birth . . . spiritual regeneration,” and adds: “In Matt[hew] 19:28 the word is used, in the Lord’s discourse, in the wider sense, of the ‘restoration of all things’ (Acts 3:21, R.V.), when, as a result of the Second Advent of Christ, Jehovah ‘sets His King upon His holy hill of Zion’ (Ps. 2:6) . . . Thereby will be accomplished the deliverance of the world from the power and deception of Satan and from the despotic and antichristian rulers of the nations.”

13 In line with this, Bible translations here render pa·lin·ge·ne·si′a variously as: regeneration, new world, new birth, world born anew, world that is to be, New Creation, new order of life, new age. Do you get the sense of that? “The twelve tribes of Israel,” representing all the peoples of mankind, are to be judged by Christ and his loyal underpriests. This is to be in connection with a regeneration, a grand renewal of all that Jehovah has purposed for this earth, down here “under the sun.”

Answer 8

Jesus said: "You who have followed me." The nation of Israel as a whole did not follow Jesus. It was Jews who became Christians that followed him.

The 144,000 cannot be all Jews. John knew that the revelation was presented to him in “signs” and that God was dealing with the new nation of spiritual Israel, he would have understood the reference to every “tribe of the sons of Israel” to be symbolic. The very fact that the listing of the tribes did not fully correspond to that of natural Israel, as set forth in Numbers chapter 1, confirmed this. (Revelation 7:5-8) Also, it was revealed to John that the 144,000 “were bought [not from among natural Israel alone but] from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.” (Revelation. 14:1, 4) Revelation 5:9, 10 makes this even clearer: “With your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.” So, if they rule as kings and priests, and all wicked people are dead, who exactly do they rule over? Two things are needed for a Kingdom; a King and a domain.

Also, do Jews really believe that they will rule as kings and priests with Christ in heaven when they do not believe that he was the Messiah?

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It amazes me that people know of Jehovah's Witnesses belief that 144,000 people will get into heaven yet are seemingly unaware of their belief that righteous mankind will continue to live on the earth, as God originally intended, as subjects of God's Kingdom.

The Bible clearly shows that God has always intended for mankind to live on the earth. Adam and Eve were not told that if they obeyed God they would be taken to heaven. They were told that they would die if they disobeyed, so if they didn't disobey, logically, they would not have died and continued living.

Even after the rebellion in Eden and the flood of Noah's day, God's purpose for the earth hadn't changed. He told Noah: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth." (Genesis 9:1) Compare this with the command that God gave Adam and Eve at Genesis 1:28.

Other verses in the Bible confirm that man will continue to live on the earth:

Psalm 37:11, 29 - "But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it."

Matthew 6:9, 10 (Part of the Lord's prayer, uttered by rote by many Christians) - "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth."

2 Peter 3:13 - "But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell."

Revelation 21:3, 4 - "With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: "Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."" This cannot be describing something that will happen in heaven to those resurrected to heavenly life since these 'former things', death, mourning, outcry and pain have not existed in heaven.

Incidentally, Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that the 144,000 will be made up exclusively of Jehovah's Witnesses. The 144,000 will include Jesus' apostles and early followers along with other faithful ones throughout the centuries since.

Answer 9

Harpazo = Rapture

END-TIME BIBLE PROPHECY

The Messiah Lord Jesus said BIRTH PANGS would signal the time of the end (Matthew 24:8). There are NINE birth pangs, they are all PRE-TRIBULATIONAL and the 1st three already occurred.

The first birth pang was worldwide conflict coupled with famines and earthquakes (Matthew 24:7-8). Worldwide conflict was fulfilled in 1914-1918, major famines happened in 1918-1921 and most of the world’s major earthquakes began to occur since 1900.

The second birth pang was the restoration of a Jewish State (Ezekiel 20:33-38; Ezekiel 22:17-22; Ezekiel 36:22-24; Zephaniah 2:1-2). This was fulfilled in 1948.

The third birth pang was Jewish control of the Old City of Jerusalem (Revelation 11:1-2). For the third Jewish Temple (Tribulation Temple) to be rebuilt, Jerusalem needs to be under Jewish control and this was accomplished in the Six Day War in 1967.

The fourth birth pang will be the Ezekiel 38 war. Russia, allied states of Iran, Ethiopia, Somalia, Germany and Armenia will invade Israel. God will miraculously destroy the invading army by earthquake, civil war among the invading soldiers, pestilence, blood, flood, hailstones, fire and brimstone. This will bring a revival in Israel where many Jews will turn to the Lord, and Israel will spend 7 years and 7 months burying the bodies and burning for fuel the military equipment left behind (Ezekiel 39:9-16).

The 5th birth pang will be the development of a one world government (Daniel 7:23-24).

The 6th birth pang will be the splitting of the one world government into 10 kingdoms and this Ten Kingdom Stage will continue until mid-Tribulation (Daniel 7:24).

The 7th birth pang will be the revelation of the Antichrist (II Thessalonians 2:1-3; Daniel 7:24).

The 8th birth pang will be a period of peace and false security that will be shattered by the Tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3).

The 9th and final birth pang before the Tribulation is the signing of the 7-year covenant between Israel and the Antichrist. THIS EVENT IS WHAT BEGINS THE (7-year) TRIBULATION - NOT THE RAPTURE!

The Rapture of the Church (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) is also a pre-tribulational event (Luke 21:34-37; 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10; Revelation 3:10; Revelation 19:6-8). The fact that the Church is not mentioned in any of the Tribulation Scriptures proves the Rapture is pre-tribulational. All raptured Christians will receive glorified bodies (Romans 8:22-23; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54)) and it can happen at any second.


THE FIRST HALF OF THE TRIBULATION (SUPPORTING VERSES IN REVELATION 6-9 AND 17)

The Ministry of 144,000 sealed Jewish believers will bring many throughout the world to accept Christ.

There will be a powerful Ministry of Two Witnesses who will also be anointed Jewish believers.

A one world religious system (Babylon the Harlot) will rule. Under this one world religious system, many who are saved during the Tribulation will suffer persecution and death.

The Political system of the 10 kings of the one world government will continue.

During the first half of the Tribulation there will also be war, worldwide famine, death (1/4 of the world’s population will die), a huge earthquake, a blackout and a meteor shower. 1/3 of earth’s dry surface will be destroyed, 1/3 sea life and salt water will be destroyed, a fallen angel called Wormwood will make 1/3 of earth’s fresh water bitter, 1/3 of earth’s natural light sources will be destroyed, there will be another blackout and demons in the form of “locust-scorpions” will come up out of the abyss led by Abaddon their king and they will inflict harm and pain for five months upon those who are not sealed by God (unbelievers). Another demonic invasion will occur and the demons involved will be led by four fallen angels who will be released from the Euphrates River and this army will kill 1/3 of the earth’s population.


MID-TRIBULATION (SUPPORTING VERSES IN REVELATION 10-14 AND 17)

The Antichrist will war against the 10 kings, and during the war the Antichrist will be killed.

Satan will be cast out of the atmospheric heavens onto earth and will resurrect the Antichrist.

The Antichrist will kill 3 kings (the kings of Syria, Egypt and Mesopotamia) and the 7 other kings will submit to him.

The Antichrist will kill the Two Witnesses in Jerusalem and the wicked people will celebrate this event. Three and a half days afterwards, God will resurrect the Two Witnesses and take them up to Heaven and the people who celebrated will become terrified. The city of Jerusalem where the murder of the Two Witnesses occurred will then suffer an earthquake which will kill 7,000 people.

The False Prophet will receive from Satan the power to perform great miracles and will deceive many. The False Prophet will command all people to worship the Antichrist and have persons create an image to the Antichrist. The False Prophet will use his satanic powers to give it life and the ability to speak. The False Prophet will cause those who refuse to worship the Antichrist and the image to be killed.

The False Prophet will issue his own counterfeit seal known as the Mark of the Beast and it will be placed on all those who surrender to the Antichrist’s authority and accept him as god. Those who refuse to take this mark will not be able to buy or sell. Those who take this mark will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.

The Antichrist will break the seven-year covenant he made with Israel, cause the sacrifices to stop, sit in the Jewish Temple, declare to the world that he is really God and set up an idol called the Abomination of Desolation in the Temple (Daniel 9:27; Daniel 12:11; Matthew 24:15-16; 11Thessalonians 2:3-4; Revelation 13:11-15).

Through the Antichrist and the False Prophet, Satan will attempt to destroy the Jews once and for all but he will fail because 1/3 of the Jews will succeed in fleeing into the wilderness. These Jews who escape will accept the Lord Jesus as their Saviour during the Tribulation (Zechariah 13:7-9) and while they are in hiding, God will miraculously provide for them (Zechariah 13:8-9; Isaiah 41:17-20). Divine intervention will also destroy the pursuing army.


THE SECOND HALF OF THE TRIBULATION (SUPPORTING VERSES FOUND IN REVELATION 15, 16, 18, 19, 20)

In the second half of the Tribulation, those with the Mark of the Beast will suffer skin sores, the remainder of sea water and fresh water will be destroyed, the sun will cause terrible burns and the wicked will blaspheme God. There will be yet another blackout and persons will suffer gnawing pains.

Babylon will be the center of world economy and political system but Babylon will be swiftly destroyed by fire and become uninhabitable for man.

The Antichrist will locate the Jews who sought refuge in the wilderness and surround them with his armies to wipe them out. The Lord Jesus will then descend from Heaven with His angels and Saints. He will come with great glory riding upon a horse and will destroy the Antichrist, the False Prophet and all of their armies. After this, a loud voice will cry out “It is done!” followed by the greatest earthquake in the earth’s history and hail weighing 120 pounds will fall.

At the end of the Tribulation, there will be another blackout, the stars will fall from the sky and the heavenly bodies will be shaken (Matthew 24:29), the Antichrist and the False Prophet will be thrown into the eternal Lake of Fire and Satan will be cast into the Abyss and bound for 1,000 years.


THE MILLENNIUM

The Lord Jesus will reign over the entire earth during the Millennium. The Jewish and Gentile believers who survive the Tribulation will go on to populate the Millennium. Believers who died before and during the Tribulation and believers who were raptured will be present on earth during the Millennium and because they will have glorified bodies they will not reproduce. All believers will be given special tasks by the Lord Jesus (Revelation 20:4-6). There will be no wars (Isaiah 2:2-4), animals will return to the Edenic state and become vegetarians (Isaiah 11:6-9), people will not labour in vain but eat what they plant and inhabit what they build, there will be renovations in the heavens and earth and there will be righteous and unrighteous children born during the Millennium (Isaiah 65:17-25).

At the end of the Millennium, Satan will be loosed from the Abyss and will deceive and gather the unrighteous for a war against the righteous. This will be his final attempt to destroy the righteous and when the unrighteous of the Millennium surround the good people, God will send fire down from Heaven which will suddenly and massively annihilate all of the wicked people. Satan will then be cast into the Lake of Fire where he will remain in torment for eternity (Revelation 20:7-10).


THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT

The Great White Throne Judgment will be the next main event. The old heavens and earth will be done away with and all will stand before God’s throne to be judged (Revelation 20:11-12). Those whose names are not found written in the Book of Life will be cast into the Lake of Fire which will be their final and eternal abode (Revelation 20:14-15).


THE ETERNAL ORDER (REVELATION 21 AND 22)

Those whose names are found in the Book of Life will enjoy paradise with God forever. The heavens and earth will be made new and the New Jerusalem will come down upon the earth making the earth like Heaven. All curses from the fall will be removed and the earth will be inhabited by the Triune God (The Father, Son and Holy Spirit), all angels and all of the righteous. The seas, moon, night and sun will be done away with and the glory of God will illuminate the earth. The River of Life will flow from God’s throne, the Tree of Life will bear health-giving fruits and leaves and the name of Jesus will be on the foreheads of all of the righteous.


God’s Plan of Salvation for Us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZkDk1GZ7do

Answer 10

Yeah, I'm not JW, and I've always wondered what made them think they are the 144,000. I can't believe they think that out of the whole world of billions of people that only 144,000 would be chosen, and why they think it's them. There is no scripture I can think of to back anything like that up. Why wouldn't they think it was the Jews? God chose the Jews to bring the Messiah to earth. How do the JW's think they were chosen?