Do not you think that it is best to be consistent when translating Scripture?

Question

Did you know that 73 out of 74 times in the New Testament, the NWT correctly places a break -such as comma - immediately after the phrase, " Truly, I tell you " ?

To be consistent, don't you think Luke 23:43 should be translated, " Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise?

Luke 23:43 is the ONLY occurance of this phrase in which the NWT does not place a break after it. Guess why. Because if break - such as comma - was placed after " Truly, I say to you," the word "today" would then belong to the 2nd half of the sentence, indicating that " today" the thief would be with Jesus in Paradise. But this would go against Watchtower theology and it would not fit their doctrines. The relocated comma is forced into a part of the sentence that changes entirely the intended meaning of Jesus' words.

I am non-denominational Christian. And I only blog people who follow me but does not give any answers, sorry if you have hurt feelings.

I am talking about doctrinal differences.

I believe in the Bible truth. And that is what I am here talking about.

The church is not the building. The church is the community of people. My church teaches the literal truth of the Bible and lead us to have a personal relationship with God.

I do not follow any particular denomination, I follow Jesus. And that is why I like my non-denominational church the best.

Well, when you see my questions and answers, you have a pretty good idea where I stand.

I visit different Christians churches time to time. To me Christiantiy means that you belive in Trinity. If you do not believe in Trinity, you are not Christian.

Moises_Frias: I understand that your favorite things are to say " Are you calling Jesus liar?" " So you say God is liar? " NO: Let that be my answer. GOD does not lie.

For the fist avatar LOL: Why do not just stick to answering my questions.

I am not here to tell about my life story. If you do not like to talk about your doctrines, then do not come to my questions.

I attend my non-denominational church regularly, but I do not mind visiting other Christians churches time to time.

Moises_Frias: The major group of Christians believe in Trinity, because we are allowed to. We are not forced to reject it.

Jehovahb: LOL. I have only blocked very few avatars, and I have the right to do so. And I will not give any personal info out, so you have to deal with info you get from my answers and questions.

Answer 1

This was due to a lack of Greek skills in the Watch Tower Society. The saying was written like this:

Luk 23:43 και 2532[AND] ειπεν 2036(5627)[SAID] αυτω 846 ο 3588[TO HIM] ιησους 2424[JESUS,] αμην 281[VERILY] λεγω 3004(5719)[I SAY] σοι 4671[TO THEE,] σημερον 4594[TODAY] μετ 3326[WITH] εμου 1700[ME] εση 2071(5704)[THOU SHALT BE] εν 1722 τω 3588[IN] παραδεισω 3857[PARADISE.]

Notice in English it is better written/translated:
And Said To Him, Jesus speaking, Verily I say to Thee Today With Me Though Shalt Be In Paradise.

See Greek is a very linear language. The words morph based on the order and the particles of the sentence.

So in light, "Today with Me, you will be" is the context here.

You see the same problems when they are going over John 1:1, they try and change Jesus to be less than God.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

They will turn it into being "the Word was a god". In doing this you have to throw out whole books of the Bible, such as Isaiah (which is 90 percent of the prophecy of Jesus), where Isaiah quotes God as saying:

Isa 43:10 "You are My witnesses," says the LORD,
"And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD,
And besides Me there is no savior.

Meaning that Jesus himself is God, and there is no other God. He said Nor shall there be after him either.

And we know that Jesus couldn't have been made, so he would have to know of another:

Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.


In a nut shell, the translator was not familiar with Coyne Greek.

Answer 2

Oh Nina, is all this worth the mental turmoil. An academic approach to the Bible is no more worth for the purpose of being a Christian than a building!

Indeed, the church is not the building. The church is the community of people of which you are a part and your obligation is to love God, seek him with all your heart and live in harmony with Him. Christianity is all about peace, tranquillity and harmony.

Your mind is not unlike the garden of Eden so take care what you sow or indeed 'eat'! The Bible is an incredible reflection of the character of man and that of God and leads to the ultimate reason for being a Christian.

Answer 3

Hum, well, if what you are saying is true, does that make Jesus a liar? Shocking quesiton I know, but Jesus himself said that he would be dead for 3 days.

Matthew 12:40 (Contemporary English Version)
"He was in the stomach of a big fish for three days and nights, just as the Son of Man will be deep in the earth for three days and nights."
Matthew 17:23 and Luke 24:46 confirm this, that Jesus would be dead for 3 days before he was raised back to life.

Now if we look at Acts 2:25-27 that paints an even more interesting picture to your little question....Especially if we use the King James Version of the Bible. "For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption"

Jesus was dead for three days, Jehovah's Witnesses teach that the dead are conscious of nothing and that "hell" or Hades is the common grave of mankind.
How do you explain why Jesus, who was in "hell" according to the KJ bible, would tell the sinner next to him that today he was going to be in paradise? Was Jesus lying? Is hell really a paradise? or was the comma in the wrong place? Is this man awaiting a resurrection? I'm going to pick...resurrection.

Answer 4

My proof is my possess capacity to learn each languages. There are many unhealthy translations, and none which might be entirely correct. But more often than not, the NWT is the worst of them. Parts of it are not anything greater than paraphrase, and now not even a correct paraphrase. I would not name it both a translation or a revision. It's extra a combo of revision and paraphrase. One different unhealthy variant is the CEV (Contemporary English Version). That one costs itself as a devoted translation. When it used to be first released, the publishers despatched me 2 copies for evaluate (figuring out that I can learn the Hebrew and Greek). I observed that it used to be neither devoted nor a translation. It is natural paraphrase, and misguided. I despatched the publishers a protracted record of verses in which their "translators" had left out the Hebrew or Greek and positioned their possess perspectives as an alternative. Since the CEV used to be "their little one," they selected to disregard my feedback. Edit: Regardless of what the NWT claims to be, it's not a translation. No one with even a primary 12 months schooling in Greek could make one of the crucial errors observed within the New Testament of the NWT. Therefore, it should be paraphrase and revision. Edit: undoubtedly you purchase the Watchtower variant of Greek, which does not fit up with some other Greek pupil's. Discussing this with you is useless. Your brain is made up, and no quantity of proof will difference it. But the truth stays, the NWT translations are flawed. Edit: Name ONE Hebrew or Greek pupil who isn't a JW who has the same opinion with the NWT translation. Edit: I'm checking those out. I have not observed Goodspeed's translation of John eight:fifty eight but, however his John one million:one million does not fit NWT. (It's additionally flawed. He interprets a noun as an adjective.) Edit: I can not uncover whole models of Moffat or Goodspeed's translations on-line, so I can not verify your declaration. I did view seventeen different translations, and all disagree with the NWT. So does the Greek.

Answer 5

Well, you have the synoptic Gospels and then you have Johns so if it wasn't recorded the same then it would stand to reason that there are different levels of understanding which would show up differently

Answer 6

Well according to your reasoning the thief was first to heaven than Jesus, then he was a liar cause he said that he was the first to go to heaven (John 3:13 ) and he went to heaven 40 days after his death but the thief was inmediatly to heaven after his death.

Now Nina is telling that Jesus is a liar wow...

" To me Christiantiy means that you belive in Trinity."

But in no place of the bible define to be christian as the one that believe in trinity, cause Jesus will reject many christians (Matthew 7:21-23 that believes in trinity)

then explain me , who was first to heaven Jesus or the thief?

cause telling that the thief went to heaven (heaven is not paradise cause that is in the earth under Jesus rulership) you are suggesting that Jesus wasn´t the first to go heaven then he was a liar.

Jesus went to heaven 40 days after his resurrrection that date was Nisan 16, 10 day before Pentecost (Sivan 6) but the thief went to heaven the same day he died Nisan 14.

Am I Wrong, Nina? who was first to heaven the thief or Jesus?

Yes Ok you can believe what you want (not because the majority believe something is necesary truth cause Muslims are more than christians and they don´t have the true)

But answer me who was first to heaven Jesus or the thief? who Nina?

1-cause If Jesus was first then the thief wasn´t in heaven then according to your translation Jesus lie when said that "today he will be in heaven"

2-but if the thief went to heaven the same day he died (Nisan 14) then Jesus that went to heaven 40 days later was a liar cause in John 3:13 he said that he is the first.

3-Or the third option is that your translation is wrong in that verse putting the comma and NWT is right not putting that comma.

Which one of this NINA? or Jesus was a liar or NWT is correct?

Answer 7

there are so many flaws and inconsistencies in the NWT, that Most Christians and Christian scholars do not even consider it a Bible. It is a work of heresy. It is the first work of translation to change essential Christian doctrine to support unchristian dogma.

Answer 8

Yes.

The bible makes it absolutely certain that Jesus and the evildoer did not reunite in any heavenly paradise within one day of their impalement.

Ancient Greek (the language of the Gospels) did not have punctuation as modern English does, so the sequence of words alluded to in this question can be translated in two different ways:

(Luke 23:43, NWT) [Jesus] said to him: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”

(Luke 23:43, KJV) Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.


So, did Jesus use the word "today" to emphasize that he was then and there making a promise, or did Jesus use the word "today" to describe the immediately subsequent 24-hour period during which he and the evildoer would be reunited in paradise? The NWT and KJV seem to disagree, but which rendering is more consistent with the rest of the bible?

Jesus already knew that he would be completely incapacitated for three days following his human death, so it would be entirely inconsistent for him to pretend that he would be reunited with anyone within one day of his impalement.

(Matthew 12:40, NWT) just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

(Matthew 12:40, KJV) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


(Luke 24:46, NWT) In this way it is written that the Christ would suffer and rise from among the dead on the third day

(Luke 24:46, KJV) Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day


So clearly, Jesus could not have intended to imply that he and the evildoer would be reunited anywhere within 24 hours of speaking this reassuring promise. Instead, Jesus was referring to an earthly paradise, into which that evildoer is assured a resurrection sometime following Armageddon.

(Acts 17:30-31) God... is telling mankind that they should all everywhere repent. Because he has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has furnished a guarantee to all men in that he has resurrected him from the dead.

(John 11:23-27) Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”

Learn more:
http://watchtower.org/e/20010315/article_01.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/20041115/article_02.htm

Answer 9

i think you would enjoy the church fathers such as Clements writings & Ignatius of Antioch etc.they are not in the cannon,but they do not contradict it (and refute heresy) and you will have a second string to your bow in regards to these particular issues

Answer 10

Jesus said, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

But if you read "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Rev 6:9-11

I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 1:9-10

You would understand that all these souls where in paradise, because they had not yet been judged. Jesus freed all the souls from hell, and they met him in the clouds, coming with glory and power, on the Lord's Day

The Thief was in paradise, but would the good works of the thief allow him to remain in heaven, once the book was opened and he was judged.

How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth.

Jesus said "I judge no man" Jesus only judges spirits, souls that have died. As he would judge them that killed him, after they died.