Did you know that the Book of Ecclestiastes presents two contrasting viewpoints - ..?

Question

one that is strictly humanistic, and another one that is spiritual and and God honoring?

If, as many scolars believe, Eccl. 9:1-10 reflects strictly humanistic viewpoint, can you see how the statement in verse 5 ( " For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing." ) reflects not God's perspective but fallen humanity's perspective?

Jehovahb: I have already stated several times that my church is non-denominational Christian.

Answer 1

The "humanistic viewpoint" is also found in the prodigal son's parable; Luke 15:24, "For this my son was DEAD, and is alive again; he was lost,and is found. And they began to be merry". He was dead to his father's household, and was lost in the world.

Spiritually speaking, Luke 20:37-38, says, "Now that the DEAD are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. FOR HE IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD, BUT OF THE LIVING:: FOR ALL LIVE UNTO HIM".

At the time of Moses' talk with God in the burning bush, the flesh men of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, had all been dead for a long time, but their "inwardman" cannot die, because it is Christ in us. Moses & Elias appeared on the mount, and Peter wanted to build 3 tabernacles to honor them & Jesus.

Our inwardman, of the spirit, never needed salvation, because it is God in us, but the sick man, our man of flesh, needed the physician to heal it's sin. It is the body of flesh which Christ adopted, Romans 8:23, "...which have the firstfruits of the SPIRIT, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body". Our inwardman moans and groans within our man of flesh, hungering for this carnal man to be changed.

Answer 2

Humanity's perspective was restored by Jesus. Consider 1. that Jesus died so that those who believe in him would sleep (John 11:11) Jesus said "Lazarus sleepeth". 2.Paul's letter to the Corinthians (I Corinthians 15:51) the believers will not all sleep (die) some will be alive when Jesus return, and will be changed instantly.

Answer 3

And all this point of view of God are not important?

Psalms 115:17 "The dead themselves do not praise Jah,
Nor do any going down into silence"

Psalms 146 :4 "His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish"

Psalms 88:10 " For those who are dead will you do a marvel?
Or will those impotent in death themselves arise,
Will they laud you? "

Isaiah 38:18 " For it is not She´ol that can laud you; death itself cannot praise you.
Those going down into the pit cannot look hopefully to your trueness"

2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness"

That is not the point of view of Solomon , it was inspired by God, in the time of Solomon nobody went to heaven that is why the bible says in Acts 2:34

"Actually David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘

Answer 4

For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing." this is God telling us that when we die we do not suffer in hell.
Scholars don't know everything.
This is one of those times you have to cross reference
(Genesis 3:19) In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

(Genesis 47:30) And I must lie with my fathers, and you must carry me out of Egypt and bury me in their grave.” Accordingly he said: “I myself shall do in keeping with your word.”

(Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned—.

Have a nice day I hoped I helped you alittle.

Answer 5

How is that contrasting, we which are alive know we will die
but the dead know,s nothing, I don't get the contrasting.

Answer 6

Funny how you have nothing better to fill your day with Nina

Answer 7

Readers of Ecclesiastes chapter 9 likely notice that the passage in question certainly does NOT refer to any "humanistic" point of view, but plainly refers to the theological "hell" or "Sheol" in verse 10. Would the questioner pretend that "hell" is used by the bible in its "humanistic" sense?!?

(Ecclesiastes 9:10) there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [or "hell"]


"Hell" ("Sheol"/"Hades") refers simply to the common grave of mankind. Acts 2:31 even notes that Jesus himself was in "hell" for three days! True worshippers have always referred to "hell" as a place of peace and rest (until the resurection). Notice that Jacob (later renamed "Israel") believed that his godly son Joseph was in Sheol, and Jacob expected to join him there.
...(Genesis 37:34-35) Jacob... carried on mourning over his son [Joseph] for many days. And all his sons and all his daughters kept rising up to comfort him, but he kept refusing to take comfort and saying: “For I shall go down mourning to my son into Sheol!” And his father continued weeping for him.

King David had many brushes with death; note that he synonymizes "Sheol", "the pit", "the burial place", and "abyss".
...(Psalm 88:3-6) And my very life has come in touch even with Sheol. I have been reckoned in among those going down to the pit; I have become like an able-bodied man without strength, Set free among the dead themselves, Like slain ones lying in the burial place, Whom you have remembered no longer And who have been severed from your own helping hand. You have put me in a pit of the lowest depths, In dark places, in a large abyss.

The faithful man Job prayed for the comfort of the grave, or Sheol, or "hell".
...(Job 14:13, Douay) Who will grant me this, that thou mayest protect me in hell [Sheol], and hide me...?”


What about the condition of the dead while they are in the grave? Does the bible teach that the soul is immortal, and conscious after death?

No.

(Ezekiel 18:4) The soul that is sinning - it itself will die.

(Genesis 2:17) But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die [and will not keep living in spirit form].

(Genesis 17:14) And an uncircumcised male who will not get the flesh of his foreskin circumcised, even that soul must be cut off from his people. He has broken my covenant.

(Judges 16:30) And Samson proceeded to say: “Let my soul die with the Philistines.” Then he bent himself with power, and the house went falling upon the axis lords and upon all the people that were in it, so that the dead that he put to death in his own death came to be more than those he had put to death during his lifetime.

(Job 33:22) And his soul draws near to the pit, And his life to those inflicting death.

(Psalm 78:50) He did not hold back their soul from death itself; And their life he handed over even to the pestilence.

(Isaiah 53:12) he poured out his soul to the very death

(Acts 3:23) Indeed, any soul that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.’

(Revelation 16:3) And the second one poured out his bowl into the sea. And it became blood as of a dead man, and every living soul died, yes, the things in the sea.

Learn more:
http://watchtower.org/e/lmn/index.htm?article=article_08.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/19970515/article_02.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/20050501/article_02.htm

Answer 8

What is your church Nina?

Let us all know don't hide it after all you have the truth right !!!

Answer 9

Absolutely correct!! I hope some JW's see this.

Answer 10

Yep. I knew that. Weird, huh?