Okay- so heres how I understand it..
God is the Alpha and the omega.. the beginning and the end.
Meaning that God is infinite... the essence of EVERYTHING.
Everything meaning exactly that- NOTHING is left out... and nothing is separate from God- every rock, pebble, speck of dirt/dust, every blade of grass, the air, every atom, proton, electron, and all the "empty space" in between... its still God.
Now, the devil is supposedly God's (much lesser) rival.. who is the sole incarnate of evil, and all spawn thereof.
But if we take as a constant that God is consciously everything, then the devil, by his very nature is still God in disguise. The devil's horns, teeth, claws, tail, and pitchfork... that is still God too, b/c God is everthing, even the devil, and even the fires of Hell.. still So if by his very essence, the Devil is of God (just as everthing else is God-- since there are no remainder's in the matmatics of infinity). Im interested in what anyone elses opinion on the subject.
2007-10-20 13:46:21 · 22 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
So if everything is God-- even the fires of hell... God will be in your face for eternity burning you horrifically... but you forget, not even YOU are separate from God- So if you somehow find your way into the lake of fire... its really God tormenting himself for all eternity
2007-10-20 13:50:33 · update #1
You are committing the error of pantheism. God is infinite, but he is not everything.
As your analysis correctly shows, if God were everything, he includes the Devil and all that is evil. This is exactly the argument against pantheism because it misunderstands the nature of God as all good.
However, you are right in one respect: Satan is not a god comparable to Yahweh. He is simply a fallen angel, a free creature that rebelled against God and gathered a large following of other angels to inhabit the earth. Here the Devil and his angels remain as tempters to win humans for hell, a place of eternal separation from God.
Cheers,
Bruce
2007-10-20 18:05:00 · answer #1 · answered by Bruce 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Perhaps, if we went through this one piece at a time, you can broaden your understanding:
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God's essence is to exist. "I Am Who Am", is how He identifies Himself to Moses. God's very name, "I Am" conveys His essence; to Exist.
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An abode called hell is the only thing totally separated from God. And it's not because hell is beyond God's reach. It's because God has chosen to be separated from hell.
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Not incarnate, because the Devil was never made man. The Devil is a fallen angel. And the Devil has a Legion of lesser fallen angels. The Bible speaks of "a third of the stars" falling from the sky as the Devil was cast down. This refers to the Devil's followers.
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God has created "everything", but that does not mean God "is" everything. God created the devil; once the Angel Lucifer. Through God, having given His angels free will, Lucifer became jealous of GOd's power and freely chose to rebel against God in an attempt to assume God's power.
<< The devil's horns, teeth, claws, tail, and pitchfork... that is still God too, b/c God is everthing, even the devil, and even the fires of Hell.. still So if by his very essence, the Devil is of God (just as everthing else is God-- since there are no remainder's in the matmatics of infinity).>>
There are a number of things wrong with this:
1) The description you give the Devil is not his real description. It is only the description of the devil as he appears in children's cartoons and the like.
2) Again, while God created everything, this does not mean God "is" everything. This sounds a lot like pantheism, which is a heresy.
3) You are not factoring Free will into your mathematics. There mere fact God creates being with free will, whether they are purely angelic or physical human beings, does not mean God is responsible for their actions as beings who can exercise free will. Do not make the mistake of ignoring free will.
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This is incorrect because you have failed to factor Free Will into your equations. God creates, but that does not mean He "is" everything He creates.
You need to understand that people go to hell because they choose to reject God. A rejection of God in this life translates a rejection of God in the next life. One has until this life has run it's course to change one's mind, or else the consequences of their freely willed actions become permanent.
God torments no one. The individual person is entirely responsible for their own eternal torment.
2007-10-21 09:48:46 · answer #2 · answered by Daver 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
It's a stretch to say that God = (Alpha, Omega) , ie an open set encompassing everything from beginning to end, means that He even includes the Devil and things evil. Note in 2 Kings that when Elijah comes to the mouth of the cave and witnesses a great wind, an earthquake, and a fire, each time God is not in the wind, the earthquake or the fire.
God is not in the physical world in the sense of being corporally inside of everything. God is not in your cheeseburger, nor in the metabolic byproducts thereof, nor in your computer, nor in the earth and sky. God is a transcedent being, and as such exists in Spirit (though He can incorporate when and where He wishes) rather than in form. That does not make Him less real - indeed, the ultimate reality is the life to come, which is less physical than spiritual.
God is not in evil nor in the Devil because the Devil, the Enemy, is the incarnation of the rejection of God. God cannot reject himself (just as Christ cannot deny Himself, see Romans), and as such, the Devil exists outside of God.
It is more logical to say that nothing happens without God's desire, indeed the Epistles tell us that God allowed the Enemy to deceive men whose hearts had become hardened to Him (God), and that the Apostles gave over unrepentant sinners to Satan for the destruction of the body so that their souls may be saved. In other words, God allows evil to exist, but does not enjoy that men do evil. A classical theological reasoning for this is that God wishes men to choose Him, and hence must give them a choice.
In this light, the Enemy exists because the Enemy chose against God, and thus those who choose against God (ie, choose evil) ally themselves with the Enemy.
This is just a nutshell, but really the topic is far too deep to give justice here.
2007-10-22 16:49:37 · answer #3 · answered by Veritatum17 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Read this excerpt from the bible and I will explain it.
One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."
"Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.
That is from Job 1:6-12. God is in control of the devil and the devil can not mess with His people unless God gives him permission to. Unless you give your life over to God then the devil will have free reign on you. Remember, the devil was a fallen angel which was also in God's plans because if He was the only one to worship then your love for God would not be the same if you did not have to be disciplined and resist temptation.
2007-10-20 21:13:24 · answer #4 · answered by man_of_faith 2 · 0⤊ 0⤋
The idea that God is everything is Transcendental in nature and any images we have attributed to the concept of a struggle between good and evil are best illustrated in Milton's "Paradise Lost," which depicts the God/Devil concept. Emerson's essay, "Divinity School Address," and Hawthorne's "Crucible" or "Scarlet Letter" as they all illustrate the human need to define and describe the nature of our own conscience and the stories we construct to define ourselves in relation to everything else.
2007-10-20 21:11:12 · answer #5 · answered by Dee 1 · 0⤊ 1⤋
God is infinitely other. He is not the same as His creation. To say that the material world *is* God is pantheism or something. that's different from saying God is somehow "in" everything.
I don't have time this second to do better than that. And if I don't answer this second I know I never will! Feel free to follow up via email.
Blessings upon you.
2007-10-20 21:06:50 · answer #6 · answered by wilsonch0 3 · 0⤊ 1⤋
yes, I'l try but by use of the scriptures but first what scriptual evidence do you have that God is in everything? or is this just your opinion. Please use the scriptures if you really want to know.
God created Jesus (the word) as the beginning of his ways Pro 8:22-30 & the angels & all other things were created by the word. John cha 1 speaking of all things
(John 1:1-3) . . .In [the] beginning [before the universe] the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.. . .
The devil was an angel, with great authourity, but he slandered God before all of his heavenly creation (he has a civilazation of spirit creatures)
Now for him to settle the issue he has let the world be under the control of Satan, to prove that Satan was wrong about mankind ruling themselfs aside from God.
So soon the Devil & the angels that rebelled with him will be destroyed . & Jesus as the King of Kings will rule over the earth with a select group of people who have the heavenly hope, (thats not all of mankind) because his purpose for the earth was to be filled with perfect people, Gen 1:28 when Adam & Eve were perfect he told them to fill the earth, he hasn't changed his plan.
(1 Corinthians 15:24-28) . . .Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the LAST ENEMY, death is to be brought to nothing. 27 For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the SON HIMSELF WILL ALSO SUBJECT HIMSELFf to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.
(Revelation 21:3-4) . . .With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
Now these are not my opinion, but scriptures & I'll give you more if you email me
pan·the·ism [ pánthee ìzzÉm ] noun
Definition:
1. belief that God is everything: the belief that God and the material world are one and the same thing and that God is present in everything
2. belief in all deities: the belief in and worship of all or many deities
2007-10-20 20:49:51 · answer #7 · answered by zorrro857 4 · 0⤊ 2⤋
Being the Alpha (Beginning) and the Omega (End)... doesn't mean... being "everything".
It actually means that "Everything" started WITH Him and because of Him, and that "Everything" will end IN Him.
The Devil is the "choice" to be "FAR" from God...
it's the choice not to live with Him and in Him.
It's a free-will not to have God in your life.
In itself is the personification of that absence: that's why he's angry, lonely, vendicative...
because he doesn't know Love, Joy, Happiness and Forgiveness.
hope I helped you somehow...
:)
2007-10-20 20:56:02 · answer #8 · answered by Aredhel 2 · 1⤊ 1⤋
Tsk, tsk, tsk! I'm certain that you must've spent a lot time researching this. Too bad that it is flawed. It smacks of Pantheism. The only thing created in His image was man, not dogs, cats, trees, nor for that matter, angels. Search the scriptures!
2007-10-20 21:08:37 · answer #9 · answered by Ted 2 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Take 2 aspirins and get some rest ! Too, much thinking ,you are trying to use human logic on a ' Infinite Being '
2007-10-20 22:55:50 · answer #10 · answered by Tinkerbelle 6 · 0⤊ 1⤋