Question for Jehovah's Witnesses I never understood this conflict in scripture, Can you clear this one up?

Question

John 1:3 says that Jesus created "all things", but in Isa 44:24, God says that he "by myself created the heavens and the earth" and asks the question "Who was with me?" when the heavens and the earth were created. How can this be since if Jesus had been created by God, then he would have been with God when everything else was created?

Answer 1

I've tried this one, they just return over and over to their circular reasoning, never really answering the question, because they are so brainwashed by the Watchtower society they can not see the truth if it is in 10 foot high neon letters. Nice try though. They will always point to the scripture at Colossians 1:16, which in the NWT says 'all OTHER things', which they then use to prove that even Jesus was created. However, in early copies of the NWT 'other' is in parenthesis and the society freely admits that words in parenthesis were added to aid the understanding of the reader. I have a copy dated 1984 which is like this.

Answer 2

No reason to confine this question to Jehovah's Witnesses, as Jesus' role in creation is a widely-accepted doctrine in Christianity.

Isa 44:24
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord, am the maker of all things,
. . Stretching out the heavens by Myself,
. . And spreading out the earth all alone,

Joh 1:3
All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Gen 1:6-8
6. Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."
7. And God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.
8. And God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

So, one could (quite reasonably) interpret this to mean that the Father, in conjunction with Jesus, created the "expanse" (heaven), which the Father alone then used to separate the "below" from the "above". I.e., the Father was the designer, but both he and Jesus produced the materials.

I checked Isa 44:24 in several versions, and in none of them does the Father claim to be solely responsible for the *creation* of heaven and earth, but rather for the "stretching" of the heavens and the "spreading" (New Jerusalem Bible says "hammering into shape" - I like that) of the earth. Clearly, the creation *could* be wholly separate from the formation, or manipulation (so to speak).

You'll have to do better than this to catch the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Jim, Christian, not a Jehovah's Witness, http://www.life-after-harry-potter.com

Answer 3

The simple logic of John 1:3 evades JWs. They say Christ was a created thing - the very first thing God created - and that Christ then went on to create everything else in creation. But John 1:3 rules the Word of God out from being created himself! They just cannot see it, though. They concentrate so hard on mistranslating John 1:1, they don't even think about the following verses!

Their own Kingdom Interlinear of the Greek Scriptures uses the Westcott & Hort Greek text that reads, literally, 'All [things] through him came to be, and apart from him came to be not - but one [thing].' So, NOT ONE THING came into being without the Word creating it. That means the Word cannot be created! Then there is the Isa 44:24 text you use to confirm that conclusion. Add to it Isa 48:13. If one argues that Jehovah did the 'stretching' of the heavens after Jesus created them, that could be turned right around to say it must have been Jehovah who did the original creating and Jesus who did the tweaking. Only a pedant refusing to face up to the clear teaching of scripture would make such an absurd argument.

Answer 4

Jesus was not created.

John 1:1-3 "In the beginning the Word (Jesus) already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. God created everything through him. The Word gave life to everything that was created, and his life brought light to everyone. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness can never extinguish it." NLT

To say Jesus was created is "darkness". To say the world was created by Jesus (alone) is darkness.

Gen. 1:1,2,26 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.....and the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) was hovering over the surface of the waters....then God said, 'Let us make human beings in our image, to be like ourselves...."NLT

No matter how hard one tries, you cannot separate God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. To do so is "darkness", which the Word came to dispel.

I am not a Jehovah's Witness, partly for the above reason.

Answer 5

This seems strange for a Book inspired by a Triune Godhead --- to minimize or even ignore three in some combination, particularly squared, as it is in pagan religions. Might there be a reason?
We find the lack of emphasis on the number three -- or nine -- to be evidence against the concept of a Triune Godhead. Why would the Bible do such a thing? Why would this number "three" be so sacred in extra-biblical religions and yet devoid of emphasis in the Bible?
First, we note Aristotle’s own use of the number "three" in relation to God: "For, as the Pythagoreans say, the world and all that is in it is determined by the number three, since beginning and middle and end give the number of an 'all', and the number they give is the trinity [Greek trias; English = "trinity"]. And so, having taken these three from nature as (so to speak) laws of it, we make further use of the number three in the worship of the Gods." (Aristotle, On the Heavens, Book I, 1) There can be no question, based on this one statement by the great Greek philosopher alone, the number three was a number of high magnitude religiously speaking. Again, we ask, Why?

Answer 6

When Jehovah created Adam and Eve, he said: "Let us make man in our image." The question is: Who was God speaking with and inviting to share in creation? A Trinitarian would probably conclude that God was just muttering to himself, or perhaps one head of the Trinity was conferring with the other two heads of the triune conglomerate. But, the more sensible and scriptural answer is that Jehovah was speaking to his Only-begotten Son.

So what did Jehovah mean at Isaiah 44:24 when he said he acted alone during the creation? The context in Isaiah indicates that God was denouncing as frauds all other would-be gods that are worshipped by the nations. Jehovah claims that he alone is the Creator of the universe. That does not exclude the pre-human Jesus from being at Jehovah's side, though. The reason being, as Jesus himself said on numerous occasions, that he 'does nothing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing.'

As the Word, Jesus did indeed create everything in existence, but it was not something that he took upon himself to do. Jehovah endowed his Only-begotten heavenly Son to have that privilege. That's why Jesus does not carry the title of Creator, because he himself was created by Jehovah and then afterwards empowered by his Creator to create all other things.

Put more simply, Jehovah could have created everything by himself, but Jesus could not have. Because of Jehovah's large-hearted nature he shared himself completely with his very first creation. And, because Jesus and Jehovah are in complete union, they act as one. Jehovah's saying that no one else was with him means that God does not recognize any peer.

Answer 7

Looks like Jesus is God!

Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.1 John 2:23

If you do not believe Jesus is God you do not have the Father either.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9

Answer 8

Not a JW but I think they say that "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God", the Word being Jesus there with him in the beginning.

Answer 9

Jesus is God!

Answer 10

I'm not a JW but they think he was also Michael the arch angel, been there all the time, then became Jesus Christ although Jesus was begotten meaning beginning! your right not mixed up he didn't have his start until he was begotten, he had to be born through the line of David, so how could he pre- exist himself?