Okay I am an officer(senior Lt in command of a platoon of dismounted infantry) in a armed force that is not American. (just a heads up as this is site is mostly covered by Americans) Anyways, I want to know why my NCO's are all so dumb, and how I can perhaps fix it.
Most of them have problems with simple formal logic and mathematics. Most them have a difficult time reading a battle plan map, and require me to give them instructors along the line of "1 section, move up 2 by 2 to that corner and hold it until 2 section secures that roof top, then move 2 by 2 to the small house here" they can not just read my map/plans and understand, they must ask me to explain in detail.
Finally, many of them seem to think that Drill and Uniform sharpness is more importent then combat skills. I have no idea why.
Why question is, why are these men so short on mental skills.
How to improve these men, so I can count on them ?
2007-10-19
08:40:55
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20 answers
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asked by
Anonymous
in
Politics & Government
➔ Military
I should add that it is an eastern block army. The privates and most Junior NCO (your equiv of Corporal) are conscripted. Then More Senior NCO are contract.
I draw battle plans and maps as per the standard in our doctrinal manuals. It is not my own system, is the standard.
As for D and D, I tell the Sergeants and Starshina's (Is like Your American 1st Sergeant, Canadian Master Warrant) To make less time on inspect and Drilling and more time on combat training. But they always fall back into marching privates around in circles, instead of reading maps or clearing rooms. Why?
I am jsut trying to be a good Officer and give my men the leadership and training they deserve and need, and they reject it at all turns.
2007-10-19
08:59:01 ·
update #1
Thank you for good answers. I believe I may be falling into trap of our doctrinal system, whereby Officers Generally do not ask the opinion or advice of NCO's. NCO's are to listen ONLY. Even the Senior ones. I will try to ask my Platoon Senior NCO some advice, and have a talk him about my perceeved short comings which I see in my platoon.
I wanted to ask here on yahoo, to seek the opinion of westerners, whom are known for a strong NCO corps, and thus have many good NCOs.
2007-10-19
09:52:15 ·
update #2
Oh and OPSEC? I am not giving you operational or tatical informations at all. I did not even mention simple things such as the weapons and roles in a rifle squad/section. Hardly this is OPSEC material.
2007-10-19
09:53:46 ·
update #3
First let me state that I am a retired Marine Captain and have found just the opposite in the US military. I learned as a young 2nd Lt (AKA Butter Bar) that if you want to learn and to stay alive in combat to listen to your NCOs. They tend to have the experiences you don't have and have better battle sense than you. That statement kept me alive until I DESERVED to be the men's leader.
To be an effective leader, your men must trust you and more importantly understand you. If they can't understand how you explain your plans....perhaps the problem is you. Track down the most effective officer that you know.... and show him/her what you have done. See if they agree with your approach and explanation. If not.... modify your presentation. Speak with your senior NCO and express your concerns. See if the senior has any suggestions to you on how to get through to your men.
Don't discount your NCOs..... believe me...they really are the backbone of ANY military.
45 minutes later....
I came back to see some of the responses you have received and I wish to apologize for some of the responders. The wording you used raised the ire of some of those who attempt to answer here and they responded accordingly. If you speak to your men that way.... you are going to alienate them and they will NOT learn from you. As far as one of your additional comments concerning Senior NCOs are only to listen.... that is totally wrong. Please understand that in all military life... it is the Senior NCO who is the bond...the glue if you will...who keeps the troops in line for his officer. He has more training responsibility than you do now...or will ever have. He will train...and retrain your men...and you will get the credit. You need to speak to this person...and gain his trust and confidence as well as rewarding him accordingly. Without the trust of your Senior NCO.... I don't believe you will last very long in your position. Another statement on here was that your NCOs can either make you look very good....but also VERY BAD. This is very true. You need the trust of the Senior NCO and he will ensure you get the trust and respect of your troops. It has been that way since the first military was established and will be that way until the military is no longer needed.
Good luck to you.
Semper Fi,
Z
Capt. USMC Ret.
2007-10-19 09:03:09
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answer #1
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answered by Anonymous
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Officers and Senior NCO's set the tone for the unit. If you junior NCO's can't handle the job, or are inept -replace them. They need more training. As far as them being dumb, you stated that you're Infantry. In the U.S. that branch isn't exactly the most difficult to get into. A common joke among the Infantry here is to refer to dumb Infantrymen as "rocks with lips". If some of them place more value on looking pretty, than in actually having and honing the skills necessary to survive in combat... I would guess that they have no combat experience. The U.S. has been leaning towards pushing civilian education on the enlisted soldiers more and more. Maybe you could do the same with your soldiers? That might help them with their math and logic. Good luck. You might have just gotten a dumb group of guys. Hopefully as your career progresses you get a better bunch.
2007-10-19 08:51:46
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answer #2
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answered by Marco R 4
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Perhaps it is you that needs improvement Lt. Many of the junior officers I've seen are hesitant, more like afraid, to ask their NCOs about things that they should know for fear of looking inadequate.
I feel they have tried to assist you in your on going learning experience but you are one of those LTs that are "OMG in charge of something" and won't listen to your NCOs, so they play dumb.
An NCO can make an officer look good or very, very bad without ever really being caught at it. Yes, we're more clever than you give us credit. After all, when something falls apart, who gets the grief? YOU will. You're the leader, your NCOs are just following your lead.
So look at yourself before complaining about your NCOs, then find a good SNCO and learn from him.
2007-10-19 09:10:12
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answer #3
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answered by Chris L 3
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no offense but if it is everyone that is so stupid and cannot read you plans you may be making things to confusing and complicated. Try dumbing it down a shade then have one of your NCO's explain the plan in a meeting to everyone else. As time goes on everyone will have to get use to interpreting paper into action. The D&U is a foundation and many would rather stick to what they already know well then try something new and look lost or incompetant. Practice makes perfect.
2007-10-19 08:48:56
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answer #4
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answered by gijoe1154 2
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Make sure they understand what you are putting on them. It's your job to make that everyone is working together efficiently to get the mission done. I'm enlisted and was having a discussion w/ my commander on a roadtrip a while back and he was telling me about some tactics that are not usually conveyed to enlisted (He thought we knew more about it than him). But he dumbed some stuff down for me so I could understand the stuff that was new for me. I sure hope I never get an LT that always tries to feel superior to enlisted. I hope you're in a country where your NCOs can put you in your place. If you're having this problem, have you tried talking to some seasoned officers or your chain?
2007-10-19 11:20:54
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answer #5
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answered by Anonymous
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In the American Army NCO's go through what we call the Non Commissioned Officer educational system which is required to achieve the next rank. The success of our NCO'S has been continual education throughout ones career. If your country has such schools you need to send them to them and keep sending them, the more they learn the better they'll get. Plus as a retired senior NCO respect is a two way street, my officers always knew with me that fact, if they strayed I would strongly let them know.
2007-10-19 10:37:09
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answer #6
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answered by Anonymous
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Your NCOs are your force extender. Without them, you command a desk...which is not a very effective weapon.
As an officer, your subordinates reflect your competence...or lack of it. You cannot hope to lead personnel for whom you have such obvious contempt and frustration. First, work on your attitude. Be someone that they WANT to follow.
You simply cannot tell your NCOs to impart skills that they do not have. Teach your NCOs the skills they need, and require them to teach them to their subordinates as well.
Set the standard, in your conduct and competence. Require your senior NCOs to meet or exceed that standard...and to require the same from their own juniors.
Good luck, and remember to surrender at the first opportunity if you are opposing American forces. :)
MSgt, USAF (Retired)
2007-10-19 10:02:18
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answer #7
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answered by Anonymous
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Now I find it very unbelievable that a "Commissioned Officer" of any Military, let alone a "Former Communist Block" would be posting a question on Y/A in regards to "his N.C.O.'s"
Come on don't be shy tell us which country!!
Also the way you formulate and compose your so called question and the examples you give particularly the "1 section, move up 2 by 2 to that corner and hold it until 2 section secures that roof top, then move 2 by 2 to the small house here" clearly shows you have never been in the military.
Other parts of your rant I find fault with are:
"Okay I am an officer(senior Lt in command of a platoon of dismounted infantry) in a armed force",
1. You are either a Second Lieutenant or a First Lieutenant, whats a "senior Lt."? Senior with which regard, date of commission or service in the unit??
2. again "Lt". is not a very common military abbreviation!! (except in US parlance!!) also no military person regardless of rank refers to his job as an "armed force".
"Most of them have problems with simple formal logic and mathematics"
3. ditto with "Formal logic" it is not an expression, I have ever encountered in over 21 years military service with a non-American, European Army. and service with U.N.I.F.I.L. in South Lebanon.
4. And soldiers are required to have a good education and a knowledge of math would be a daily requirement when calculating & formulating written requests for logistics, from Ammunition to Food. Your comment indicates you have no idea how much paperwork is generated and obligatory in the military.
5. Your "1 section, move up 2 by 2 to that corner and hold it until 2 section secures that roof top, then move 2 by 2 to the small house here" example is not formulated in a real clear and consice military way, that any military person, would recognize and understand, its to short in detail and open to cause confusion, no Officer cadet would have made it out of the Military Collage using this type of order.
6. Your comment: "Finally, many of them seem to think that Drill and Uniform sharpness is more importent then combat skills. I have no idea why." clearly demonstrates you have not got a basic grasp of why the military train and teach soldiers the way they do, or the priority in which things are taught, all this, coupled with your basic spelling and lack of good grammar, reveals, to serving members of the military, or past members of the military, that you are nothing more than a TROLL.
2007-10-19 09:10:13
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answer #8
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answered by conranger1 7
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For those that don't know, he is using the Russian rank system. He would be labeled a 1st Lt under the western system.
First your troops need an enemy. Get together with another unit and practice war games. Failure means being a P.O.W. and they can only get released after knowing what they are suppose to know. I'm sure being locked in a caged pit with just a bucket and the army manual while being surrounded by "hostile" forces will either straighten them out or get them out of your hair. Most commanders rule by some fear when there is no conflict to produce the fear. The Chinese just beat their subordinates. Peeling potatoes, forced marches (with full packs)/exercises and yelling (always yell at them anyways) at them in front of their subordinates are different tactics. Your subordinates are not your friends and the military isn't suppose to be easy.
Russian military discipline:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PEdEnENnOU
Burmese
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJiK4NGq858
2007-10-19 11:28:58
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answer #9
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answered by gregory_dittman 7
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Clear concise directions in communication is paramount when in the military. As you already know and understand.
You need to take these that " just don't get it " and delegate one that you know and trust to " tutor " these individuals to a point that there is absolutely no question that they understand clearly your directions. Until they have that clear understanding of your " directives " all privileges are cancelled until further notice.
Why such drastic measures ? Simply because another military brothers life might be on the line. Plain and simple.
You are an appointed leader. Be one. Get cracking and start running a great platoon.
A former Marine.
2007-10-19 08:56:22
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answer #10
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answered by woodster 4
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