Am I the only pagan who feels the words "The Burning Times" should be abolished?

Question

I'm sure I'll piss a few pagans off with this, but I get irked at how this is used.
Fact: More Christians were "burned" then wiccans or pagans. It's called mass hysteria for a reason.
Fact it was awful and sad peice of human history
Fact There are a MILLION more peices in human history that are far bloodier.
We are not victims and I am tired of being painted as one. Are we discriminated against? Sure we are. Just as much as any non-mainstream religion. I am not belitting those who HAVE suffered at the hands of ignorant people, I KNOW that it happens. It happens in all faucets of "sub-cultures". A hate crime is a hate crime Period. But good goddess, "The burning times never again"? Come on people. Am I the only one who gets irked at this phrase?

And I AM pagan by the way. Check the nick

That sounds itchy Labgrrrl.....
Forget what happened? Nope. Stop screaming it like a damn fundamental Christian and crying into thier caludron? Yes

Answer 1

Yes, it's time to drop this. We are not being attacked, dragged out of our homes and burned at the stake. It happens in 3rd world countries, but nowhere near on the scale it did during the different Inquisitions. The type of discrimination we go through here is Nothing compared to what people went through back then. We are NOT being treated the same. We are NOT victims. People who lay down and cry because someone teased them over their choice of Religion is NOT a victim! (They're a wuss).

People like Ravenwolf, the Frosts, etc... are keeping this idea going. They talk about "the persecution could start up again" (an actual line in Ravenwolf's To Ride a Silver Broomstick). If they were truly that worried about it, would they be going on tour? giving the dates out? Would they let people know where they live? Come on... they're full of it! They do this for the money! Not because they're actually worried that any Inquisition is going to start. Simple fact - it would be very hard for such a thing to happen today... too many Pagans carry weapons too. =)

And, to put the icing on this cake, I really wish people would quit quoting that "9 million women were killed during the Spanish Inquisition". There is absolutely NO evidence at all for this #!!! Historians show that it is more likely that it was around 100,000 women AND men that were killed during the Spanish Inquisition (the other Inquisitions show even smaller #'s)

No, you're not the only one who gets irked at it. I get so tired of seeing it and hearing that # of deaths. And Fluffies *Sigh* nevermind... my answer is long enough as it is lol

Edit -

No one calls the Holocaust the "Burning Times". And more people were Burned then than during the Inquisition (several times over!). No one is saying to forget it, but at least be honest about it! It was not done on the scale that most people claim it was done. And as pointed out, it was mainly Heretic Christians that were killed... Pagans and Witches make a bigger deal out of the Inquisition than they do the Holocaust, yet I would say the Holocaust was worst, BY FAR, than the Inquisition. THAT was wholesale killing... the Inquisitions were not.

Answer 2

For those who think the persecution of those suspected of being Witches has ended, or that other "fringe" groups will not get that sort of treatment, you might want to do a little more study into the history of humans. We have done it many times, to many different groups of people.

I wish people wouldn't be so stupid as to think that when people say "Never again the Burning Times", that they are just talking about Witches.

While I do not think that we as Pagans need to look for persecution everywhere, I do not think that forgetting what happened back then is a really good idea either.

What needs to happen is that folks get educated on what really did happen during that time, and to who. And yes,I really do think we need to make sure that the mass hysteria of that time never happens again.

Being aware is not the same as being paranoid.

Answer 3

Oh no, there's plenty of us out there. I didn't come up with "Never once the Burning Times," but I do make use of it. There's an avatar on LiveJournal floating around that says "Never Again the Squished by Rocks Times" (with appropriately absurd picture) as a parody of people protesting things that didn't really happen.

The phrase is obnoxious on a number of levels to me. First, it misrepresents history. Second, it takes someone else's tragedy (people being mistakenly burned as witches) and claims it as our own, which is incredibly disrespectful for the real victims. Third, it attributes all sorts of silly things to those victims that would leave them absolutely horrified if they could hear them today. Fourth, it completely blows out of proportion what's going on today. Yes, sometimes we're discriminated against. But we aren't regularly burnt at the stake, and that kind of language renders all parties defensive very quickly, resulting in nothing positive being accomplished.

Answer 4

These are the types of people that need history to validate the current. They use it as an "attention getter" for lack of better words. The only other I can think of off the top of my head are blacks (african-americans for you PC people...and I'm not trying to offend) and the subject of slavery. There is no such thing as The Burning Times in todays society (nor slavery). One of my Mom's favorite saying is "It's ancient history...live in the now and for the future". However, as I stated, the people spouting about The Burning Times need it because without it, they can't validate the persecution they receive now. It's history, learn from it and move on. Don't cling to it as a crutch.

Answer 5

I appreciate your opinion and reasoning on the matter, however i must disagree with you. We should not forget the burning times.
However, i do not agree with any of us running around playing the victim either....we as pagans should be able to empower each other and our way of life.
I do not get irked by the phrase, but i do not like it when people use it as a battle cry either

blessed be
)o(
trinity

Answer 6

Well, it's all part of the persecution complex I see far too much of in Neopagan circles. We need to get over it and stop assuming that everyone is out to persecute us. I think that some of us, who were raised in White, middle-class homes, find it empowering to imagine ourselves as an "oppressed minority." For some, that's the whole fun of being Pagan -- being different, outcast, oppressed. This is also closely tied in with a hatred of Christians, and a hatred of men. But these attitudes are unhealthy, and bad for our community. We need to show that our Religion is something serious, beautiful, and powerful for us. We need to show that we are not all a bunch of humorless crybabies. We need to not make the same mistakes that other "oppressed minorities" have made, and use our imagined "oppressed minority" status to justify prejudice on our part. We need to realize that not all Christians are Fundamentalist Witch Burners out to persecute us and deny us our rights. Most of them would probably defend our Freedom of Religion if we would only defend theirs. And, we need to get past the sexism that is all too common in the Neopagan community. Men and male deities are NOT the root of all evil. The sexes can come together, and work together, and exists in harmony and balance. And we need to stop doing silly things, like writing angry letters of protest every time we see a traditional Halloween witch on TV, or see a movie that depicts the "folklore" version of the witch archetype. Mainly, we need to all just lighten the F up!

Answer 7

Yeah, I definately believe that the "Never forget the Burning Times" thing should be abolished! There are no facts to back up the claims that 9 million women were killed during this time, let alone that they were Pagan!

Answer 8

'sokay, it bugs me too.

I'm not for forgetting what happened - I mean, even the most conservative reports show several hundred thousand dead, overall - but some people blow it *way* out of proportion. Near as we can tell, the whole "9 million" number is off by an order of magnitude.

What bothers me the most is people who whip the phrase out for every little issue they encounter. Doesn't matter if they get cut off in traffic or scowled at for wearing a pentacle, the moment they see something they don't like, they start waving the persecution flag. Not only does it make them look like they've got a martyr complex, they also debase what happened.

Answer 9

Sigh...you are arguing over words.... Simply a phrase to describe a very awful time which was one of many in our history where one group of humans decided to persecute another group regardless of whether they were actually a part of the group or not....Whether or not the people who were targeted were actually witches is not the point. The POINT is or was that they were BELIEVED to be witches. These "righteous" "pious" Christians used their own holy book to justify murdering a number of people in a horrible manner. It was never about what or who these victims really were, it is about what they were believed to be. You are only painted as a victim if you let them paint you that way. Why does it bother you for some to call the past event as what they perceive it to be? I am a Witch. Plain and simple. But in saying that I am also making myself a target for every Fundy nut job in a 300 mile radius of my home who believes that his holy book gives him/her the right to try to convert me and if I won't, destroy me. Simply based on one line of a book that they think is from their God....
If you don't think that this happens now, you are sadly mistaken.

Answer 10

The Burning Times is easier to spell than the Inquisition. lol actually I agree the attitude towards the Burning Times is a bit skewed, but to abolish? no way. No one would suggest to abolish the Holocaust (and plenty of other peoples were murdered than just Jews).
Abolishing or forgetting is a huge mistake with history, for without remembering we tend to repeat mistakes.
I feel directing our energies towards educating the facts would be a wiser choice.
The Inquisition was more about gaining land for the Church and killing anyone who opposed them than solely directed at 'women who were witches'.
Entire villages were known to disappear after the Inquisition
They would kill you, your family, and all your animals as well as anyone else you named under torture
Jew, Gypsies, and anyone else they hated were accused of being a witch
Some argue that the number of 8 million deaths is a bit skewed, but considered how long the Inquisition went on, I think this is entirely possible. 500 hundred years is a long time.