“There is no right or wrong”…..REALLY?!?!?!?

Question

The following is a conversation that I had with someone last night. I’ve abridged it in the interest of space, presenting the talking points :

Her : “There is no such thing as right or wrong.”

Me : “A man walks up right now and murders your dog. Is that wrong?” [We were at a dog park with our dogs at the time of the conversation.]

Her : “No.”

Me : “You’re walking home, and a stranger grabs you and rapes you. Is that wrong?”

Her : “No. Both of those are experiences that needed to happen.”

I went on to ask her, point blank, if she has taken a lot of drugs in her life. She acknowledged that she smokes marijuana on a regular basis, but I don’t attribute her comments to smoking pot. I also asked her religion. She stated that she believed in Christ, had strong faith, but wasn't a Christian. She labeled herself a polytheist.

So, I ask you, good people of R&S : Does this woman display Christ-like tendencies for forgiveness, or is she a clinical sociopath?

BETTIE!!!!

Answer 1

I see a couple of questions here.
1. Does right and wrong exist? Of course, and I think most of us agree on that, and I agree with the person who said that the moment she became a victim of one of those items you mentioned, she would find herself believing in right and wrong - that is, if it's only a philosophy. If she is a total mental case, then she might not change her mind. In that case, I would recommend pills before therapy. (By the way I wouldn't leave her around pets or children or the elderly or infirm - around anyone who couldn't defend themselves).
2. Is it possible she is expressing a form of forgiveness? No. You are not forgiving anyone unless you first acknowledge that what they did was wrong. In order to forgive you have to go through the painful process of recognizing your hurt, of realizing the offender is wrong, that your rights have been violated, then choosing to assume that, and forgive the person. In her case, she is just saying "I don't care". She does not seem to be really alive.

Answer 2

I think, philosophically, I tend to agree with her - that what happens has a reason behind it even when it is abhorrent, but that is quite possibly a rationalization for faith in a deity that allows bad things to happen to good people and an acknowledgement that the sum total of our experiences results in who we are. If we are "meant to be" who we are, then we must experience the things that bring us to that point. It's a VERY circular logic, though, so it's not something one can try to convince others of.

It also may well just be a tool for developing resignation. If you cannot control it, you have to accept it, whether it is good or evil, so say "it just had to be that way," you are building your own ability to cope.

However, that should not negate the need to categorize good and evil because we CAN control our own actions and most of us want to do the right thing. Can we really determine that there is no right or wrong? We - as a species - feel guilt and empathy. We generally do not WANT to harm others, so we automatically categorize these things. Look at the biggest debates in society today: they are all about what is best fopr people: do we go to war to protect the people or do we stick with peace although people may be killed if we don't fight? Do we allow abortions for the sake of women and girls or do we disallow them for the sake of the unborn? Do we help MS patiets and others with fetal stem cells or do we help the fetuses instead? Obviously, people want to help others... it's just a matter of decoding what the best way to do that is. That suggests the right and wrong, good and bad DO exist as a part of the nature of Man. Those who wish to injure other people are sick. They may not meet the legal definition of insanity, but people who want to cause harm are not the norm, and those who do are damaged in some way.

So is your friend a Christ-like person or a sociopath? I think she is a human being trying to reconcile the existence of evil with the basic human desire to do good. She does not seem to want to do harm to others, so I would suggest that she is not a sociopath, but I'm not sure we need to drag Jesus into it either.

Answer 3

That isn't forgiveness... because first you have to recognize that something Wrong was done to begin with before you can take the step to forgive. If those actions aren't wrong, then there's nothing to forgive. Sounds like she has a very strange idea about Fate/Destiny to say those experiences NEEDED to happen. What Necessity could there possibly be for Rape to happen?

I couldn't say she was a clinical sociopath, because from what little information you give here, it doesn't tell us whether or not she is Antisocial or that She lacks moral responsibility (she's not running around slashing people with a knife saying "This NEEDS to happen" is she?) It really only shows us that she views wrongdoing in such a detached way that it appears she is numb to it... not that she isn't taking responsibility for her own actions.

Answer 4

A murderer - a man committing an evil act - not God - not supposed to happen.

A rapist - a man committing an evil act - not God - not supposed to happen.

She displays a pretty big lack of empathy for anyone who might be the unfortunate victim to either of these types of act. It's my opinion that Jesus Christ wouldn't have just waved a hand at either of these scenarios and simply said "oh, these were SUPPOSED to happen" and then been on His merry way. So in my opinion, No, this is not a Christ-like tendancy for forgiveness. Murder is one of the "Big 10" - that's not OK in God's sight. Is it forgiveable? ONLY if the person committing the murder is TRULY repentant - only God can know that, only God is capable of that type of forgiveness.

She's not a clinical sociopath - but she's obviously misguided.

As for the "Everything Happens For A Reason" train of thought - YES, everything does indeed happen for a reason - but sometimes that reason is not because God has caused it to happen - often it's because some evil creepo of a man (or woman) has decided for themselves to have a complete disregard for human life or for the dignity of another person.

Answer 5

I am the first one to say that we can learn from every experience ...
that doesnt mean that these experiences were good or nice or right....
but in hindsight we can perhaps see the good that comes from them

what I fail to understand is that if people feel things are predestined ... where does that leave free will ?
I am of the opinion that certain things in our life , may have been something we have chosen pre life ...
but other peoples choices and decisions are not part of this..
not rape , not murder , not experiences obviously done by someone who is not in a healthy state of mind
chemical imbalances in the brain are NOT meant to be and part of the big plan

Answer 6

More likely I think she has spoken to someone and been convinced that there is no right or wrong. I think this somehow justifies things she has done in her life and so she adopts this thought. Even an Atheist will tell you that while there is no good or evil, that there definitely is a such thing as right or wrong. There is no absolute sense of right and wrong though, as what may be seen as wrong in one culture, is just fine with another.

Answer 7

i've met some people who have been fortunate enough to have never encountered anything truly terrible in their lives and they've had much the same thought process. if this is the case, then once she gets a taste of reality, she'll change her mind.

but, she could also be a sociopath. i have only met one of those that i know of, and it was eerie to be around her. she didn't seem to be living in the same world as the rest of us.

one more side to this oddly shaped coin; i truly believe that everything happens for a reason. sometimes the reason isn't revealed to you until much after the fact, but you can't get somewhere without the experiences that got you there. in that case, are things actually bad? i suppose not. they're just things that happen and we decide if they make us feel good or bad.

BUT sociopath is the most likely answer lol

Answer 8

I would not call those Christ-like tendencies. Someone who believes in God/Christ believes also there is a definite right/wrong. We are supposed to forgive of course but that would still mean a right/wrong. She just sounds pretty confused.

Answer 9

According to the theory of evolution, how can there be any right or wrong?

All these laws we see today in countries worldwide are based on a basic foundation of morality based on our conscience, instinct if you like. That evolutionists do not recognize this as one of the proofs of God having created us is another of their monkey-not-see tricks.

Otherwise, murder, theft, etc become things that have no guilt associated with them -- rather, they become things that society punishes still because it used to be based on a religious foundation.

So the woman above can not be labeled Christian, but I would label her a strict adherent to evolutionary philosophy.

If I abandoned my faith, I would join her philosophy. Without God there is simply no accountability. And who are you to tell me what to do?

Isn't this what we see is happening with all the terrorism today? People feel a total lack of accountability. If people really believed God to be a God of love and accountability, would they dare do what they do?

I am talking about all killing, all war, all terrorism.

Answer 10

I remember all the great talks I used to have with complete strangers at the Huntington Beach Dog Park in Southern California......but I digress.

Honestly - she sounds a little troubled to me; maybe even in need of some counselling.

I think as Christians we accept good and evil, dark and light, heaven and hell, day and night, right and wrong; and we understand "our adversary the devil like a roaring lion, prowls around seeking whom he would devour."