Atheists, do you have proof...?

Question

that logic, reasoning, sense perception, memories, and scientific investigation can lead to accurate picture of reality?

Or do you believe this without conclusive evidence?

wes: what research can you do without assuming these things true?

Just to clarify, I don't think it's fair to ask you for evidence, nor do I think it's fair for you to ask theists the same. I believe because I have no other choice.

Answer 1

I don't believe it at all.

Are you another one of those believers who assumes that atheists claim to know everything?

Now some of those things - notably logic and scientific investigation, working hand-in-hand can dramatically improve our pictures of reality. In fact they have already done so toa spectacularly successful extent. We understand things going on around us far far better than we did just a few hundred years ago, when modern science was in its infancy.

"Conclusive evidence" is a nonscientific term, and not very important. Evidence matters: drawing a conclusion with the intention of ignoring later evidence is a serious mistake, an act of narrowminded intellectual cowardice.

In your additional details, you challenge "wes" to identify research that can be done without assuming that these things are effective. Of course there are assumptions in science (for example, that the future will be like the past, in general), and our research does not support (or refute, of course) those assumptions.

But when you challenge assumptions, you need to be prepared to say that you're willing to do without those assumptions. Do you believe that logic is sometimes wrong? For example, can you think of a counterexample to modus ponens?

The challenges to sense perception and memories are in fact challenges to the foundation of religious belief, not of a scientific worldview, and of course there are numerous situations in which sense perception and memory are reliably fallible. I'm more than willing to abandon an assumption of the infallibility of sense perception and memory - but that undermines religion, not science.
=======================
"Just to clarify, I don't think it's fair to ask you for evidence, nor do I think it's fair for you to ask theists the same. I believe because I have no other choice".

If I were asking you to stop believing, I would agree with that completely. But it doesn't matter at all to me whether or not you believe in gods, as long as your beliefs don't affect me. As soon as your beliefs DO affect me, though, it is perfectly fair to ask you for evidence of the existence of god. Why should I act as though gods exist simply because you believe that they do?

That's the nature of the situation we're in, and until the believers understand, it we're going to have these battles.

I'm afraid you've bought into the radical relativism stuff.

Answer 2

logic, reasoning, sense perception, memories and scientific investigation leading to an accurate picture of reality?

as far as i know.....logic, reasoning, sense perception, memories and scientific investigation is based on reality.....so wat's there to prove?

logic is just a system or principle of reasoning

in order to have reason, u must have intelligence and knowledge.....basically some form of education....and the things we learn in school IS reality

sense perception.....wat i can see, touch, hear must be real

memories.....for most people memories are a copy of reality some time ago....im saying most people, because some people are mentally ill and are able to "create" memories based on fantasy

scientific investigation....well anything that has to do with science deals with truth in the world that we live in.....conducting a scientific investigation must have observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of a certain phenomena


"Just to clarify, I don't think it's fair to ask you for evidence, nor do I think it's fair for you to ask theists the same. I believe because I have no other choice."

it's not a 2 way belief system......christians claim God is real.....when u claim something or start a theory, u need to have some sort of evidence to back up ur beliefs to make ur theories credible.....atheists are just people who dont believe in this claim because no evidence is given......and there shouldnt be any evidence since religion is all about faith....believing in something without the need of proof

u always have a choice......the God u believe in gave u freedom of choice.....if he's going to condemn u to hell for utilizing his gift of freedom, then he's just playing a sick game

Answer 3

Well, reality comes a lot closer to making sense using reasoning, sense perception, scientific investigation etc. than blindly believing in some big invisible holy ghost in the sky that built the whole universe in a week, had his rush job turn sour, then drowned all the men, drowned all the women, drowned all the children, drowned all the babies, drowned all the animals, even drowned all the plants, killed everyone and everything, except Noah. Who would want to worship such a God, even if he would show his face?..

Answer 4

Dogma is an escape from reality. People continue to be afraid and, out of this fear comes belief in a fearsome God. Then, out of the blue, God becomes nice and sends Jesus to die for us (our sins) and then, has poor old Judas condemned forever because God made him turn in Jesus. Even Jesus was a bit peeved at Judas even though he should have been fully aware that it was God's will. Now there's a bit of logic for you.


Plato -- There are many things I can not see that may exist. It does not mean they are not real. I only do not know of them.

Another Atheist.

Answer 5

Would you like conclusive proof that there were originally 200 books reviewed for inclusion into the New Testament and they were all written by man? None were inspired, otherwise there would not have been such a big debate over the few that were selected.

Answer 6

To a certain extent; it can be an accurate picture of reality, plus there is alot of evidence out there; which more often than not goes against most religion. Take a look at science books, like text books, and you'll find the proof, and also scientist base their knowledge on logic, where as religion does not.

Answer 7

The fact that I am not dead after 26 years proves my logic, reasoning, sense perception, memories, etc. function properly.


"Just to clarify, I don't think it's fair to ask you for evidence, nor do I think it's fair for you to ask theists the same. I believe because I have no other choice."

This doesn't make sense. It *is* fair to ask what evidence an atheist has as to why they don't believe. It *is* fair to ask what evidence a theist has as to why the believe.

Your question would indicate that it is impossible for anyone to know anything. Which means that both of our beliefs are meaningless.

If thatis the case, then you wouldn't care why we don't believe.

Answer 8

It gives a more accurate picture than the belief in a deity which no evidence suggests exists...

Answer 9

None of these things give us an accurate picture of anything. So what are you suggesting? Do you have something MORE accurate than logic and reasoning? Could you possibly be suggesting that blind faith is more accurate?

Answer 10

If a cup breaks, its logical to assume that the next cup, in the exact same situation, will break - do you disagree?

The sun has arisen 4634543 million times, is it illogical to think it will not tomorrow AND if not, do you understand WHY it IS logical that it doesn't? (death of the star, itself)

This doesn't prove God, if thats what you're after, but this universe, what we see, feel, hear, smell, even THINK, exists as "is." What "beliefs" are, are mere figments of your mind which falls under "thought" which falls under this universe. Without "mind" there can be no "God" since there is no "belief"

- Buddhist