How many are scared of the Catholic Rhetoric?

Question

They say thinks like "watch what you say" about the Catholic church. But if what I say falls in line with the word of God, how can they call me a heritic? Anyone who believes in the word of God, can not also believe in the word of the catholics doctrine, since the two say different things.

Is anyone scared when this man-made religion says things like "If you do not join our Church, you will go to hell?".

I wish they were that direct, but instead they dance around with their different doctrines.

I am not scared of the men in the Catholic Religion, I only fear God.

Mary is sinless - not biblical

false teaching, Catholics Teach that you are born-again when they baptize an infant. And infant can't believe or understand, which the Bible says is required to be born again.

Not Biblical

HISTORICAL FACT: The Catholic Church was created by Man named constantine in 300 AD, the Bible was Created by God and completed by 70 AD.

Stop posting more rhetoric......

Block me, call me names, burn me at the stake like you been doing throughout history.

sorry, which part am I wrong about? I am an ex-catholic and I studied their dogma very well.

You are just pulling things out of the air, becuase you have no real answers.

Wrong, the first Christians were Jews who converted.

Next Caller,

You need another 30 years.

Answer 1

No.
I choose to follow God's word not the traditions of man.


†

Answer 2

"I am not scared of the men in the Catholic Religion, I only fear God."
I agree, I am not scared of any person in a religion either…so your point would be what? You are not scared of Catholics…good for you! I’m a Catholic and I can tell you, we are not scary nor do we want to be.

"Mary is sinless - not biblical" – it is Biblical if you understand the Bible. Just because it doesn’t say it in those exact words for the regular “simpleton” doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Understanding scripture is much more involved than just reading a verse and applying YOUR interpretation.

Mary is the New Eve…hmmm…Eve was sinless but chose sin. So in order for Mary to fulfill the role of the New Eve she would have to begin as a sinless creation as well. Given the same choice as Eve, she said “yes” to God where Eve said “no.” That’s just one example, but I don’t want to overwhelm you.

false teaching, Catholics Teach that you are born-again when they baptize an infant. And infant can't believe or understand, which the Bible says is required to be born again. ---- It doesn't say you must believe or understand to be born again. That's a misinterpretation...again. St. Paul says the baptism is the same as circumcison...which was done to infant boys.
Infant baptism is scriptural
(see http://members.aol.com/RSIWORSHIP/scriptural.html). In John 3:5 it says: Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.” This would include children. Baptism is not a proclamation of faith, that is the sacrament of confirmation.Check out these sites...if you dare: http://www.catholic.com/library/Early_Teachings_of_Infant_Baptism.asp
http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/journals/v2n3.htm
http://www.fisheaters.com/baptism.html

"HISTORICAL FACT: The Catholic Church was created by Man named constantine in 300 AD, the Bible was Created by God and completed by 70 AD. – This is NOT a historical fact. You are wrong. Catholicism can trace its beginning back to…guess who…Jesus Christ. The term “Catholic” wasn’t used, but the practices of the Mass, the hierarchy of the Church and the sacred oral traditions were all in use and passed down by the original Christians. The practices of the Catholic Church today are the SAME as those of the first Christians….hence we are the same Church. Check out this one: http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/did_constantine_invent_catholicism.htm

"sorry, which part am I wrong about? I am an ex-catholic and I studied their dogma very well". ---Obviously you didn’t or you would understand and know better. If you knew and understood your faith as a Catholic, you'd still be in the Church.

"You are just pulling things out of the air, becuase you have no real answers". – All the answers you need are in the Bible…the very Bible the Catholic Church determined to be the inspired, divine Word of God. Maybe you should stop using the Bible since it’s really a collection of Catholic sanctioned documents! The Catholic Church gets all her teachings and beliefs from sacred scripture and sacred tradition. Neither of these two ever goes against the other...think about it.

"Wrong, the first Christians were Jews who converted". – So…what’s the difference of that? The first Christians (who were originally Jews) eventually became what we know today as Catholics.

Answer 3

I've never heard anyone make threats like "watch what you say" about the Catholic Church. I've also never heard anyone say (including the Church, itself) that anyone who doesn't join the RCC is going to Hell. That's something I hear from Protestants all the time, but not Catholics.

I know that some Catholic theology is difficult to understand. Some of it's not popular, and some of it is inconvenient. None of it is inconsistent with Scripture. I will grant you that some Catholic theology is not explicitly spelled out to the teeniest detail in the Bible, but NONE of it is inconsistent with Scripture. Don't allow yourself to be fooled that protestant theology is all found in Scripture, because this protestant idea of sola scriptura is not Biblical either. Neither is sola fide, or the rapture, or any number of other theological flavors of the month.

Have you ever read the Gospels? That's where the life of Christ is recorded. Nowhere in any of those accounts does Christ sit His disciples down and say, "Here's what belongs in the Bible, and you should ONLY use these writings when you teach." He never gave us a Scriptural canon. What He *did* do was establish a Church. He gave that Church, founded by Christ and led by the Apostles and their successors, the authority to teach and to establish the substance and doctrine of the religion we now know as Christianity.

Mat 16:18-19 - "And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."

He didn't say, "Thou art Peter, and thou matterest not. Thou hast no authority to guide my church. Teach only from the Word, which has yet to be written, and teach that thou hast not the correct meaning of the Word. Thy words mean no more than any other man's, and heaven shall not heed thee. Teach instead that each must divine his own correct meaning of the Word."

So you see, Christ gave us a *Church*, and He promised us that Hell itself should not prevail against that Church. The Church has the authority to teach and guide the faithful, whether or not we find those teachings and that guidance to be convenient, or easy, or popular. You cannot fear the Lord without also respecting the Church He founded. Anyone who claims to believe the Word of God must believe the whole of it, not just the parts that are easy.

Answer 4

So you're saying Constantine creating the Catholic Church, yet somehow it didn't occur to anyone to change the bible?

Constantine: "hey guys, i'm gonna create a church that goes against the bible"

random bishop: "then why don't we change the bible"

Constantine: "no, let's not. In fact, let's ignore the fact that the church i'm supposedly going to create already existed for 300 years"


lost.eu/21618

Answer 5

Have you ever really studied the Catholic religion? Do you REALLY know what they are saying? They follow the teachings of Christ. I often wonder if you REALLY know what you are talking about. Do you know that "Born again Christians" (the original ones) were people who left the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church weren't evangelistic enough for them? Christ was NOT an evangelist. He respected all religions and taught in a quiet manner, by living his beliefs and talking to those who wanted to listen. And how long have YOU been studying? The Catholics REAFIRM their faith and baptism in mass, or do you recall that? Jesus was a jew unto death! What? I didn't hear you. Guess you don't wanna talk. Closed minds means you don't want to listen to others opinions and learn what others think.

Answer 6

Interesting you say "they say" who's they, and do "they" represent the teaching of catholic dogma."

Firstly, the catholic church does not hold the view that non-catholics go to hell, this is invalid.
What it teaches is that those of differing faiths will be judged by their own interpretation of the truth.

1 :"Mary is sinless - not biblical"

The Protoevangelium of James (AD150) records that when Mary’s birth was prophesied, her mother, St. Anne, vowed that she would devote the child to the service of the Lord, as Samuel had been by his mother (1 Sam. 1:11). Mary would thus serve the Lord at the Temple, as women had for centuries (1 Sam. 2:22), and as Anna the prophetess did at the time of Jesus’ birth (Luke 2:36–37). A life of continual, devoted service to the Lord at the Temple meant that Mary would not be able to live the ordinary life of a child-rearing mother. Rather, she was vowed to a life of perpetual virginity.

However, due to considerations of ceremonial cleanliness, it was eventually necessary for Mary, a consecrated "virgin of the Lord," to have a guardian or protector who would respect her vow of virginity. Thus, according to the Protoevangelium, Joseph, an elderly widower who already had children, was chosen to be her spouse. (This would also explain why Joseph was apparently dead by the time of Jesus’ adult ministry, since he does not appear during it in the gospels, and since Mary is entrusted to John, rather than to her husband Joseph, at the crucifixion).

According to the Protoevangelium, Joseph was required to regard Mary’s vow of virginity with the utmost respect. The gravity of his responsibility as the guardian of a virgin was indicated by the fact that, when she was discovered to be with child, he had to answer to the Temple authorities, who thought him guilty of defiling a virgin of the Lord. Mary was also accused of having forsaken the Lord by breaking her vow. Keeping this in mind, it is an incredible insult to the Blessed Virgin to say that she broke her vow by bearing children other than her Lord and God, who was conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit.

2 :"False teaching, Catholics Teach that you are born-again when they baptize an infant. And infant can't believe or understand, which the Bible says is required to be born again."

"Not Biblical"

Why did the Jews circumcise their children in infancy ?
Was this not for spiritual cleanliness ?
Gospel preaching in Acts that includes baptism as a response specifically includes children (Acts 2.39). See also Paul’s exhortation to the Philippian jailer (Acts 16.31).

3 :"HISTORICAL FACT: The Catholic Church was created by Man named constantine in 300 AD, the Bible was Created by God and completed by 70 AD."

Catholicism can trace its papal authority all the way back to Peter ... what nonsense are you talking about ? The Constantine argument is long dated and refuted.

4:"sorry, which part am I wrong about? I am an ex-catholic and I studied their dogma very well. "

Hmm your wrong in just about pretty much everything.
You studied you say ? ... a half hour google online ?

Answer 7

"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the CATHOLIC CHURCH." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).
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Exodus 25:11-21 - the ark of the Old Covenant was made of the purest gold for God's Word. Mary is the ark of the New Covenant and is the purest vessel for the Word of God made flesh.

2 Sam. 6:7 - the Ark is so holy and pure that when Uzzah touched it, the Lord slew him. This shows us that the Ark is undefiled. Mary the Ark of the New Covenant is even more immaculate and undefiled, spared by God from original sin so that she could bear His eternal Word in her womb.

1 Chron. 13:9-10 - this is another account of Uzzah and the Ark. For God to dwell within Mary the Ark, Mary had to be conceived without sin. For Protestants to argue otherwise would be to say that God would let the finger of Satan touch His Son made flesh. This is incomprehensible.

1 Chron. 15 and 16 - these verses show the awesome reverence the Jews had for the Ark - veneration, vestments, songs, harps, lyres, cymbals, trumpets.

Luke 1:39 / 2 Sam. 6:2 - Luke's conspicuous comparison's between Mary and the Ark described by Samuel underscores the reality of Mary as the undefiled and immaculate Ark of the New Covenant. In these verses, Mary (the Ark) arose and went / David arose and went to the Ark. There is a clear parallel between the Ark of the Old and the Ark of the New Covenant.

Luke 1:41 / 2 Sam. 6:16 - John the Baptist / King David leap for joy before Mary / Ark. So should we leap for joy before Mary the immaculate Ark of the Word made flesh.

Luke 1:43 / 2 Sam. 6:9 - How can the Mother / Ark of the Lord come to me? It is a holy privilege. Our Mother wants to come to us and lead us to Jesus.

Luke 1:56 / 2 Sam. 6:11 and 1 Chron. 13:14 - Mary / the Ark remained in the house for about three months.

Rev 11:19 - at this point in history, the Ark of the Old Covenant was not seen for six centuries (see 2 Macc. 2:7), and now it is finally seen in heaven. The Jewish people would have been absolutely amazed at this. However, John immediately passes over this fact and describes the "woman" clothed with the sun in Rev. 12:1. John is emphasizing that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant and who, like the Old ark, is now worthy of veneration and praise. Also remember that Rev. 11:19 and Rev. 12:1 are tied together because there was no chapter and verse at the time these texts were written.
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Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 - these texts show the circumcision of eight-day old babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant - Col 2:11-12 - however, baptism is the new "circumcision" for all people of the New Covenant. Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults. God did not make His new Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for both Jews and Gentiles, infants and adults.

Matt 19:14 - Jesus clearly says the kingdom of heaven also belongs to children. There is no age limit on entering the kingdom, and no age limit for being eligible for baptism.
Acts 2:39 - Peter then says baptism is specifically given to children as well as adults. “Those far off” refers to those who were at their “homes” (primarily infants and children). God's covenant family includes children. The word "children" that Peter used comes from the Greek word "teknon" which also includes infants.

Acts 10:47-48 - Peter baptized the entire house of Cornelius, which generally included infants and young children. There is not one word in Scripture about baptism being limited to adults.

Answer 8

you have obviously never taken the time to read any doctrine of the church. the church is fully and solely centered around Christ and nothing we do is un biblical. it may appear so to many christians, but thats cause you guys only have four hundred years of this stuff and the Church has been here since Christ himself walked the earth.

Maybe you should study before you open your mouth

Answer 9

You will continue to paint yourself into your biased corner wont you?
You say you read the Bible but yet you follow your own ego and not the Holy Spirit of truth, the Catholic church gave you the Bible and you have the nerve to rant against it,I suggest you read in your Bible those passages on humility.

Answer 10

Brian, Brian, Brian. You need to take a deep breath.

I believe in the Word of God. I love the Bible. I also believe in Catholicism. I was a fundamentalist Protestant and the more I studied Scripture and prayed that God would lead me, the more I realized that everything I held true was found in Catholicism. Oh, most protestant churches had bits and pieces of it, but it was ALL in Catholicims.

Let's get ONE thing clear: the Catholic Church DOES NOT say that you have to be Catholic or you will go to hell. Absolutely NOT. Catholics leave the issue of each person's salvation up to God. If He wants to save a Jewish person or a Muslim or whomever, He can. He is God! He can do whatever He wants! And Jesus died for the sins of the WHOLE world, not just select groups (see John 3:16).

I am as direct as I know how to be with you and you have yet to respond to my direct answers. So please stop saying that we're dancing around -- you ask, I answer. Why don't you respond to my direct answers?

The Bible DOES say that Mary is sinless, because of the title she is given in Luke 1:28. The angel greets her, "Hail, Mary, who has received the Fullness of Grace."

Luke wrote in Greek, so I guess you'd have to study Hellenistic Greek to understand this, but the way the words are structured, Mary is being given a title. This title is never used for anybody else, just Mary.

But what does it mean to have received the Fullness of Grace? You tell me. Where does Grace come from? Christ. He is the author of our salvation and the one and only source of Grace. We agree on that score, I am sure.

But Mary didn't just receive some grace, she received the FULLNESS of Grace. What does that mean? It means complete and total salvation from her sins.

But look at the context, Brian. The angel didn't call her, "Mary, who *will* receive the fullness of Grace" -- It is "Mary who HAS received the fullness of Grace." Again, you have to read it in Greek to see that. Have you ever studied Greek? Do you even have a Greek New Testament? You really should get one and take Greek classes if you haven't already. It's extremely beneficial to study Scripture in the oldest text that we have.

Okay, so what this title means is that Mary had already received the full portion of Grace, absolute and total salvation and sanctification from Christ when the angel was talking to her. The work was done. She was thoroughly and completely cleansed from sin. So, she was sinless.

If you can cite some Bible verses that detail any of the sins you think Mary committed, it might be helpful for those of us who are trying to understand your position. But you just say, "Mary was a sinner" with NO proof!!! And the Bible states otherwise, as I have demonstrated above.

C'mon, Brian. There's your direct answer. Let's have a direct response for a change. Cough up whatever Bible verses you think state that Mary, specifically Mary the mother of Jesus, sinned.

You think that it's wrong for Catholics to believe that we are born-again at baptism. Why is that? Don't you believe that you are born again when you are baptized? Why is it okay for YOU to believe that baptism provides a regeneration of your soul but not us?

As for whether or not infants can believe or understand, you are obviously not a parent. I have 3 living children. Every single one of them when they were born, they knew I was their mother. They knew I was different from all other people, including their dad, and they responded to me differently than all other people. They couldn't say the word "mother" and they didn't understand the concept of "mother" but they knew their mother.

The BIBLE says that you are WRONG on this score. Read it for yourself:

Psalm 22:10
From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God.

Do you think Scripture lies? No, of course not. And yet here as is, clear as day, that even in the womb, He is our God.

Furthermore, Jesus specifically said that the little children were NOT to be denied His blessing.

Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

Do you think that you are wiser that Jesus in denying children and babies the Grace that Christ earned for them on the Cross? He apparently had no problem bestowing His grace on children of any age, and yet you would tell Him not to!

Who is really following the Bible here, Brian?

Yes, the children must believe at some point -- that is what we Catholics call Confirmation. We raise our kids to know and love and believe in Jesus and to trust Him fully for their salvation. I know you don't want to believe it, but that's what we do. I'm doing that right now with my kids. Ask any of them, and they will tell you who Jesus is and why He went to the Cross and what their hope is in Him.

You've already been told that Christianity was legalized by Constantine. THAT is the historic fact. You say he "invented" the Catholic Church, but you provide NO evidence. You are apparently just speculating. Post your sources if you think you are so right about it. The absence of any source or evidence hints that you have no idea what you are talking about and you are just making stuff up.

As for your rather amusing statement that the Bible was created in 70 A.D., where is your evidence of that? Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy and the rest of the Old Testament existed LONG before that. The Gospel of Mark was written in about 36 A.D. Seriously -- where are you getting all your supposed facts?

Post your sources! If not, we must assume you know they are false and you are purposely in concert with the father of lies.

And I really find it impossible to believe you are an ex-Catholic because you get our dogma wrong time and again. If you ever were a Catholic, your parents failed to educate you properly. Or they sent you off to a lousy religion teacher and never bothered to make sure that you were paying attention and learning things properly. My 5-yr-old knows Catholic doctrine better than you do!

Okay, all direct answers from me -- how about some direct responses, Brian? Or are you too scared to answer directly yourself?

Answer 11

pulling things out of the air is better than pulling things out of our bu** like you do. But we do not pull things out of the air. The Holy spirit is currently in the process of revealing all manor of things to us. Too bad he does not do this for you.