The Bible is all you need - it doesn't really work, does it?

Question

Here is some simple empirical eveidence:

Authority:
Catholics say it resides in the Church Christ established: The Church decides doctrine, as it did in the book of Acts regarding circumcision. This is why we have unity of faith among 1.3 billion Catholics, and why our teachings are exactly what the apostles and their successors have always taught for 2000 years.

Protestants say the Bible is he final authority. For a protestant, their doctrines come from their own scripture interpretations, which is why they have thousands of disagreeing denominations. Lutherans say you baptise babies, Baptists say you don't. Espicipalians say there is a priesthood, Fundies say there isn't. On and on.

The batlle cries of the protestant revolt in the 16th century were "Sola Fide" (Faith Alone) and "Sola Scriptura" (The Bible Alone). Both are false. Can't anyone see that?

"Sola Scriptura" (The Bible Alone) is obviously wrong for the reasons stated above.

And "Sola Fide" (Faith Alone)?

James 2:24 says: "You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone."
How can you say you are saved by faith alone when the Bible says in black and white that you are NOT saved by faith alone?

Gotta love those Fundies though. They are passionate: I'll give them that much. And they are Christians, so I DO love them (even CJ).

Comments anyone?

Answer 1

Scripture alone disproves "scripture alone." Scripture never says that Scripture is the sole infallible authority for God's Word. Scripture also mandates the use of tradition.

Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:15. Those who preached the Gospel to all creation but did not write the Gospel were not less obedient to Jesus, or their teachings less important.

Matt. 28:20. "Observe ALL I have commanded," but, as we see in John 20:30; 21:25, not ALL Jesus taught is in Scripture. So there must be things outside of Scripture that we must observe.

Mark 16:15. Jesus commands the apostles to "preach," not write, and only three apostles wrote. The others who did not write were not less faithful to Jesus, because Jesus gave them no directive to write. Jesus never says he intended the Bible to be sole authority of the Christian faith.

Luke 1:1-4. Luke acknowledges that the faithful have already received the teachings of Christ, and is writing his Gospel only so that they "realize the certainty of the teachings you have received." Luke writes to verify the oral tradition they already received.

John 20:30; 21:25. Jesus did many other things not written in the Scriptures. These have been preserved through the oral apostolic tradition and they are equally a part of the Deposit of Faith.

Acts 8:30-31; Heb. 5:12. These verses show that we need help in interpreting the Scriptures. We cannot interpret them infallibly on our own. We need divinely appointed leadership within the Church to teach us.

Acts 15:1-14. Peter resolves the Church’s first doctrinal issue regarding circumcision without referring to Scriptures.

Acts 17:28. Paul quotes the writings of the pagan poets when he taught at the Aeropagus. Thus, Paul appeals to sources outside of Scripture to teach about God.

1 Cor. 5:9-11. This verse shows that a prior letter written to Corinth is equally authoritative but not part of the New Testament canon. Paul is again appealing to a source outside of Scripture to teach the Corinthians.

1 Cor. 11:2. Paul commends the faithful to obey apostolic tradition, and not Scripture alone.

Phil. 4:9. Paul says that what you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, do. He says nothing about obeying Scripture alone.

Col. 4:16. This verse shows that a prior letter written to Laodicea is equally authoritative but not part of the New Testament canon. Paul once again appeals to a source outside of the Bible to teach about the Word of God.

1 Thess. 2:13. Paul says, “...when you received the word of God, which you heard from us.” How can the Bible be teaching first century Christians that only the Bible is their infallible source of teaching if, at the same time, oral revelation was being given to them as well?

1 Thess. 3:10. Paul wants to see the Thessalonians face to face and supply what is lacking. His letter is not enough.

2 Thess. 2:14. Paul says God has called us "through our Gospel," which was given by oral teaching.

2 Thess. 2:15. The fullness of the Gospel is the apostolic tradition which includes either teaching by word of mouth or by letter. Scripture does not say "letter alone."

2 Thess 3:6. Paul instructs us to obey apostolic tradition. There is no instruction in the Scriptures about obeying the Bible alone (the word "Bible" is not even in the Bible).

1 Tim. 3:14-15. Paul prefers to speak and not write, and is writing only in the event that he is delayed and cannot be with Timothy.

2 Tim. 2:2. Paul says apostolic tradition is passed on to future generations, but he says nothing about all apostolic traditions being eventually committed to the Bible.

2 Tim. 3:14. Continue in what you have learned and believed knowing from whom you learned it. Again, this refers to tradition which is found outside of the Bible.

James 4:5. James appeals to Scripture outside of the Old Testament canon ("He yearns jealously over the spirit which He has made...").

2 Peter 1:20. Interpreting Scripture is not a matter of one's own private interpretation; it must be a matter of "public" interpretation of the Church. The Divine Word needs a Divine Interpreter. Private judgment leads to divisions, which is why there are 30,000 different Protestant denominations.

2 Peter 3:15-16. Peter says Paul's letters are inspired, but not all of Paul's letters are in the New Testament canon. See, for example, 1 Cor. 5:9-10; Col. 4:16. Also, Peter's use of the word "ignorant" means unschooled, which presupposes the requirement of oral apostolic instruction that comes from the Church.

2 Peter 3:16. The Scriptures are difficult to understand and can be distorted by the ignorant to their destruction. God did not guarantee the Holy Spirit would lead each of us to infallibly interpret the Scriptures.

1 John 4:1. God instructs us to test all things, test all spirits. Notwithstanding what many Protestants argue, God's Word is not always obvious. For example, the Lord speaks to Samuel, but Samuel doesn't recognize it is God. The Word of God is not self-attesting (1 Sam. 3:1-9).

Protestants must admit that knowing what books belong in the Bible is necessary for our salvation. However, because the Bible has no "inspired contents page," you must look outside the Bible to see how its books were selected. This destroys the sola Scriptura theory. The canon of Scripture is a Revelation from God which is necessary for our salvation, and which comes from outside the Bible. Instead, this Revelation was given by God to the Catholic Church, the pinnacle and foundation of the truth (1 Tim. 3:15).

Cheers,
Bruce

Answer 2

love your thoughts!!!
I am learning- always learning new things on my religion & the fact that some Christian religions do not acknowledge the book of Revelation has pondered me. Especially based on Sola Scripture. If they don't acknowlege it & just decided "let me take that book out of my bible" and then create a new christian religion then it really isn't The Bible alone, is it?
So I like what you wrote.
I also believe God granted us Free will- which iis why we have individuality & crime. We are free to make our own choices, every minute of every day. So Faith alone is not enough. The choices we make our ours to make not God's so if the choice is not a good one then how can we say " I trusted in God's guidence & my faith". Thus blaming the bad choice on your faith. Faith goes hand in hand with learning, praying, doing as the bible says- to be good- always, love & not to hate- but we are human and have free will so we do make bad choices.
Very tough subjects you have chosen.

Have you read the Lamb's Supper? It is a pretty profound book... & very interesting & it has changed my viewpoint on a few things. First & foremost I will not view the body and blood of Christ as just symbols & not just bread and wine.
Anyway I am still learning & found your thougts very insigtful.
God Bless.
Ziggy

Answer 3

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be COMPLETE, THOROUGHLY EQUIPPED for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16-17, 2 Peter 1:3)

The Bible, handled correctly (2 Timothy 2:15), is all we need, however, this does not prevent men, including those in the Catholic Church, from distorting the Scriptures according to their own desires! (2 Peter 3:16, 2 Timothy 4:1-4)

The divisions we have are not the fault of the scriptures, but the fault of those who want to add to, delete from, or distort the Word of God according to their own desires, feelings, and biases!

Answer 4

The Bible is all I need, and it does work for me.

As to your evidence:

The church is nothing but a body of believers whose only hierarchy is Christ Himself. So for anyone to say that their doctrine is the final word, when it does not coincide with scripture is heresy.

Baptism comes from the Holy Spirit, water Baptism is a symbolic representation of the death, and burial of the old nature and a ressurection of our new nature and our walk with Christ.

Fundies don't recognize a hierarchy called the priesthood, but they do believe in the priesthood of every believer.

Sola Scriptura is still a truth, as is Sola Fide.
Anyone who has spent much time reading James will know that James, whom by the way was the step brother of Christ, taught that works do not save, but faith without works is a dead faith. Works is not the mechanism that saves us, it is the outward reflection of our faith. If we have faith, we will also have good works. Remember that we are save by grace alone and not by works lest any man can boast.

If we say we are saved by works, we deny the saving work of the cross. If we say we are saved by grace and works, we discount the finished work of Christ on the cross.

roney; Judah was the first stick and Ephraim was the second stick. What this referred to was a divided Israel, northern and southern kingdoms. It is saying that in the last days the northern and southern kingdoms will be returned to one unified Israel.

grace2u

Answer 5

If Bible Alone worked there would not be 30,000+ Bible Alne denominations with radically conflicting interpretations of the same verses.

No Scriptura Solists are functionally such:they all appeal to their church traditions and the authority of their churches,pastors,teachers and /or individual opinion.,even whhen they deny it or do not notice it.

Answer 6

It's amazing how you can take something out of context and spin it like a merry-go-round.

Good job.

But you have to do better than that. The Catholic faith has a Christian foundation, that is true. But because of Emperor Constantine, who wants to unite his empire under one religion, decided to create the Catholic faith. "Catholic" means "universal". He can't force Christianity to the Pagans nor can he force Paganism to Christians, so he created Catholicism where you can find Christian doctrines perverted by Pagan traditions.

Also he was the one who invented the Crucifix as a symbol of his ingenuity, not as a symbol of faith. That's why in the Medieval times, the Cross on their tabards and banners aren't symbols of faith, they are symbol of their allegiance to the monarchy. They just use religion to cover their evil actions.

Therefore, when Protestants use "Sola Fide" and "Sola Scriptura", they are protesting that the Church should be based on faith alone and on the Bible alone, and not on some Paganism traditions.

I rest my case.

Answer 7

Catholics say it resides in the Church Christ established: The Church decides doctrine, as it did in the book of Acts regarding circumcision. This is why we have unity of faith among 1.3 billion Catholics, and why our teachings are exactly what the apostles and their successors have always taught for 2000 years.


Really? They tought to pray to mary ? wow, I didn;t know that, I always thought it was just another false teaching you people practiced. I guess on second thought, i still think is was just another false teaching your people dreamed up.

Answer 8

Remember this. The Bible doesn't say anything or tell you anything. It is an inanimate object. Something which needs to be picked up and read.

It can "show" you but it can't tell you.

The Bible is also incomplete as abridged because there are other writings spoken about in the Bible, yet you don't see their pages within the text of the Bible, so it is incomplete.

It is not absolute in everything. In other words (this goes out to you Jehova's Witnesses) it is only meant to be used as a guide not an absolute law.

Answer 9

If the Bible was all we needed Jesus would never have sent another angel to earth to give the Golden plates to Joseph Smith. Through Joseph Smith he ordained another Prophet to the world to clear up many of the parts of the Bible that were miscomprehended. Yes the Bible is the word of God, however too many people started to take some of it out of the context God had meant it to be. One person would say it meant this and another would say nay it meant that. The world needed another Prophet. Hope this helps. The Bible really does work if you understand it right.

Answer 10

Wait a minute ... the Bible hasn't existed for 2000 years.

Read your history - the church collected the various gospels available at the time, through away some and edited the rest to create the collection which we now call the Bible ... around 300 years after Christ.

The Bible, as profound as it may be (in parts), is a work of man. It is heavily edited by people with an agenda.

That God may have had a part of (or indeed all of) the making of it, perhaps, by his guidance of mortal fingers, but certainly its current shape and point is closer to 1700 years.

Answer 11

Sola Scriptura is not in the Bible so by the very definition it is faulty