How can Mormons believe a religion that has been so thoroughly disproven by science and rational thought?

Question

I'm not saying their IDEAS are wrong, just that their facts are way off base in most cases.

Would any of you ever vote for a Mormon candidate for president (i.e., Romney)? Personally, even though Romney may be a great guy, the Latter-Day Saints Church is scary crazy and I could not place my trust in anyone who bought into their propaganda. No offense against any Mormons out there. But the LDS Church literally brainwashes its members from birth to automatically reject ANY contradiction of the Mormon faith, no matter how factual it may be.

For example, the Mormon holy book called the Pearl of Great Price is largely based on Joseph Smith's "interpretation" of some ancient Egyptian papyri. Later on, a real translation of those papyri was done, and suffice it to say that Smith's version was absolute gobbledeygook. Just one example.

Just curious what everyone else thinks - I grew up in a VERY Mormon town, and as the outsider looking in, it was easy to see through all the crazy stuff.

Answer 1

I would like to add to the other excellent answers by other LDS here.

First, the only scary crazy things are the stuff that the anti-Mormons SAY we believe.

Our children are as brainwashed as other Christian children, maybe less so.

And there are more adult members who are converts than are raised in teh church, especially outside of Utah. As for being brainwashed, I find more overt brainwashing going on in those evangelical/pentecostal churches.

The LDS church has given me a much greater understanding of Jesus Christ, enabling me to feel the love of God more in my life than I ever felt before. And the person who answered before was right when she said that other Christian church teachings leave more questions than answers. I prefer answers.

As for the Book of Abraham, we know from recorded journals of others that we don't even have half of the papyri that Joseph Smith had.

Answer 2

I don't know where you got your facts, but you have been misinformed. The Mormons are now "way off base" in any case. Science has not disproved any of the Bible. As a matter of fact, science has proved the Bible.

I don't know how Mormons could be "scary crazy", but I doubt you could even give one example of what you mean by that. They aren't scary or crazy. They are devout in their beliefs, and believe the family comes first.

There is no propaganda or brainwashing in the Church. We are taught to think for ourselves.

The Mormon "holy book" is the Bible, the same Bible used by Christians the world over. Do you not believe in the Bible?

I'd like to see the "real translation" of the Egyptian papyri that you claim has disproved the Pearl of Great Price. The Church has never been presented with this so-called "proof". As far as the world is concerned, the translation Joseph Smith did was accurate, and has never been disproved.

I am sorry that you feel this way, but that is your choice. I just ask that you get the REAL facts before you open your mouth.

sabapsych, I've not been a member since I was 5. I joined in my 20's. I am not brainwashed, nor am I a cultist. I've done my own research -- I don't rely solely on the Church to tell me about Church history. I've never found any reference that the original papyri has ever been found. I know the Church has been looking for it, and has never been able to find it. The papyri have been missing for a century or more. I'll do more research on it.

By the way, sabapsych, I've never born my testimony in church, and never "forced" my children to do so. I am too shy to do so. I bear my testimony in my actions, not in my words.

Answer 3

First of all, gob, i admire your bravery at asking this obvious question, bravery because there is probably not a group of people more close-minded to criticism of their beliefs than the LDS.

Beginning at an early age when they can barely talk, the LDS are taught to 'bear their testimony' in front of the congregation at testimony meeting. You haven't seen brainwashing until you see a 5 year old shyly repeating, with mommy coaching what to say, "I know that the church is true and that Joseph Smith was a prophet. I know that Gordon B. Hinkley is a prophet of God," etc. From that time forward they are taught to bear their testimony to each other ad infinitum. It's reinforcement theory in practice, so of course they really, REALLY believe it.

Seekingtoad, like most very young LDS, thinks that all 'anti-mormon propaganda' (which includes ANYthing that isn't 100% glowing about the church) has been answered by the church brethren. Yeah, right. He and nymormon haven't heard that the original Joseph Smith Papyri were found in the 1960s and translated by real egyptologists, even LDS ones, and turned out to be a common pagan Book of Breathings. Whatever, say the LDS. The church has 'answered' that and that's all we cultists need to know. And besides, we've all been bearing our testimonies since we were 5 or so, so why confuse the issue with facts and contradictions? It's backward logic for sure (yes, like all other religions and firmly held belief systems): what I believe is true, so you CAN'T disprove it with mere facts or logic.

Finally, wouldn't it be nice in this often confusing and frightening world to believe that you had all the answers and that it all makes sense? And that good will win in the end and bad will be punished? Freud pointed out that religion is simply an extention of the all-knowing, all-powerful loving parent into the sky.

John Lennon said whatever gets you through the night is all right, it's all right. So we should take it easy on our Mormon brothers and sisters. They're deluded but it helps them cope. Just don't try to get them to apply reason, science or fact to their beliefs. If they did, many of them would leave the LDS church, as many do. Then what?

So, on a light note, let's watch all the young LDS answer this with a flurry of thumbs-downs. It's actually funny to watch.

Answer 4

You may have grown up in a Mormon town, but you obviously do not know much accurate information about our beliefs, no offense.

Romney's religion should not be a driving factor in the Presidential race, but rather his political, economical, and ethical views should help us decide if he would be a good candidate. Unfortunately, religion will probably have a major impact which will be a sad statement about the country.

Your comments about brainwashing are also ridiculous. So many members in our day are converts to the church, like myself. I am an educated person. No one has duped me into becoming a member or to automatically reject any supposed contradictions about our beliefs.

We believe the Gospel because it is true. We study, live our religion, pray for a witness of truth from the Holy Ghost.

A better question is:

How can you, who are obviously basing this question of heresay, personal opinion, and anti-mormon propoganda, doubt the sincerity of the beliefs of others and not see through your own crazy arguments?

Answer 5

as far as mitt romney goes, there is seperation between church and state, and actually would be a great candidate- and for a previous poster- he is against illegal immigration and actually has drawn out deatiled plan on how to change it, including a wall with infa red and cameras- all without raising any taxes! if you actually listen to his politics he would be of great service to this country and pick it off it's feet- his track record proves it (i have followed the GOP candidates very closely) but on to the real question- religion as a whole is constantly contradicted. You can look up any religion and find holes in the theories. The fact of the matter is mormons are in the spotlight, because the religion was started not too long ago. The details are still fresh in peoples minds, where others that started centuries ago are long forgotten or on the back burner. Catholicism, protestant, all these religions have some questionable begginings. Christianity as a whole in the beggining was ridiculed. My goodness, Jesus Himself was ridiculed, scorned, and discredited by those who didn't believe. Miracles or not- they still killed Him! What I am trying to say is that belief is just that- believing in something that you cannot see- but something that you feel. If everything was as plain as day, it would require no faith, and defeat the purpose of us even being on this earth. I can tell you why I believe- because it has made the biggest positive change in my life than anyone can imagine. I have a peace and understanding that I didn't have before. I am a better person, and i have strong moral and family values- i am taught how continually become a stronger person, a better person, and to improve my relationship with my Savior and my Heavenly Father. This church has giving me blessings that I couldn't have ever imagined. it is truly priceless. I don't believe that our facts are way off base- as matter of fact most of it makes more sense than most other religions out there (i have studied many) all religions have good in them- but a lot of them leave more questions than answers. The LDS church is not like that, if you actually look into the doctrine and the meaning behind things instead of just going by hear say or what the mormon kid did down the street. The gospel is a powerful thing- and amongst all the ridicule and bashing members stay strong because the truth cannot be denied, and the positivness in your life cannot be denied, but most importantly the deep down truthfulness that you feel in your heart cannot be denied, that is why believe. Because after hearing the truth, to act as though you don't know is like lying to yourself everyday- i should know, i did for over 3 years! and it was miserable. It's not brainwash- our sunday services are no different than others in the sense of the way things are taught- as a matter of fact, it is the members that teach one another, not some trained staff set out to brainwash everyone. It's a very humble and Christ centered religion, and really doesn't deserve all the flack that it gets.

*EDIT- sabaphysc- when you teach your child how to pray- do you help them? To you teach them the proper way to pray, and help them when they stumble on words? Why would a child (who asks to and wants too- i have never seen anyone take a child on the stand that didn't want to be there) bearing his testimony be any different? That's like saying the schools brainwash kids when they give regergitated performances and speaches on subjects. And for the record i have born my testimony twice in 21 years and i am a very active member. So lets not make generalities please.

Answer 6

All anti-mormon propaganda has been answer and resolved by the Church. Most of it is not entirely factual as you claim it is. Where did you hear about this "real" translation of the papyri?

As mormon_4 pointed out, only fragments of the original papyri were found. This reference gives evidence that the portion that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Abraham from was probably lost, and is not part of what was recovered: http://fairwiki.org/Book_of_Abraham_papyri

I'm kind of simple minded- I don't usually get into all this detective work, but it's good for me to learn about it. :) The reason I believe in Mormonism is because of the spiritual experiences I have had, and because of the actual doctrine- not necessarily because of the details of how the doctrine came about.

I wonder if those of you who buy into that papyri translation criticism have even read the Book of Abraham that it was translated into? How do you feel about the message of the Book of Abraham or of the Book of Mormon? Isn't that the real question?

Answer 7

I'm LDS, and grew up in a town that was half LDS. I had a lot of friends who weren't LDS and trust me...they had some crazy, crazy ideas about the religion even though they grew up in a Mormon town. So, I hate to say it to you, but growing up in a Mormon town doesn't give you credibility. Especially since you're spewing the same anti stuff that's really common out there that's based on half-truths and lies. Maybe you should check out mormon.org to get a basic knowledge about the church.

Answer 8

Is voting for a Roman Catholic who believes in a literal emaculate conception a good idea? Science has proven that a zygote can not be created asexually.

How about an Evangelical Christian? They still believe in the LITERAL interpretation of genesis. Is it a good idea to vote for such a person who believes the world is less than 6 thousand years old and was created in 6 days even though this flies right against the grain of science?

This is called a double-standard my friend and is a sure indicator of bigotry.

Answer 9

My beliefs are scary crazy, but no offense, lol.

Every criticism you have against mormons I can turn around and apply to any other religion.

Why do sooo many anti mormons think their beliefs sound any less crazy to non believers???????????

Mormons actually have on average higher levels of education then traditional christians. Mormons are taught to respect the beliefs of other faiths. Mormons are taught from birth to ALWAYS ask God and gain their OWN testimony and to NEVER rely on the testimony of another person.

You clearly have NO idea what the mormon church really believes or what mormons are taught so please stop trying to tell mormons and others what it is we believe.



shadow, he is a lot more liberal then I would want. He is a lot more liberal than most mormons actually. But his justification is that he believes in state rights and that if the citizens of a state that voted him in want a law to be a certain way then he will do his job as their governor to support it. I dont know how much of that is what he really believes and how much is political pandering, but he is consistent when it comes to that concept. Every politician has to do some degree of political pandering.
I think when you look at a guy like Harry Reid and then a guy like Mitt Romney, both professing to be strong practicing mormons, it kind of goes to show that religion doesnt necc dictate your political leanings. Although mormons do tend to be overwhelmingly right of the spectrum. But again, Romney isnt as right wing as most. And Harry Reid, dont even get me started....

Answer 10

My reasons are, but that may in no way mean anything to or will work for you, or any other unbeliever. But I am okay that my proof 'settles it' for me. Generally, when someone requests proof, the burden is on the person required to provide proof to do so to the satisfaction of the one who wants it. So it is no small wonder (gasp) "that virtually every atheist here can tell [believers] exactly what it would take to convince them that God is real". Pretty much anyone who wants proof of anything feels the same. Then again, believers can offer all sorts of evidence that worked for them. But that is not what atheists are looking for, even though that is often the unasked question. The fact that believers maintain that ""NOTHING could EVER convince me the Bible isn't real -- God said it, I believe it, and that settles it!" doesn't sound like that is being offered as proof but as a statement of position or viewpoint, and as such begins and ends there. If your criteria for 'proof' is not within the capabilies of the believer to provide (eg, a personal holy floor show with all the bells and whistles), or they are unwilling to even make an attempt to do so (I fall into this category), that does not signify that the believer/s in question have not discovered all the proof that works for THEM. Belief is like opinion, what works for one may not work for others. I could offer all of the proof that I have had demonstrated over the many years I have been a Christian, but from spending time here in R&S, I know that none of it holds any sway with the atheist community. I don't feel bad about it, your proof will just have to come from some other source, place, and time. It also doesn't mean I won't continue to try to make my case for Christ. Even so, if proof is all that will ever result in your salvation, I hope and pray that you find what works for you, in Jesus' name. Hope I helped. God bless you. † ----------------------- Paul S. Bullfighter: If Christians believe already, why would we need to test it? We have received our proof. Those who have not--current and former Christians and others, test to your hearts content. Lack of compelling and conclusive evidence is not the issue for those who have made Jesus their Lord and Savior.