The "Not True Christians" argument?

Question

Ok, so nearly every time a Christian is mentioned as doing something bad/evil (i.e. Hitler, Crusaders, etc., etc.) they are immediately labeled as "not 'true' Christians"? I mean, didn't Jesus say you should pray for the forgiveness of your sins? So why, then, immediately after someone commits a forgivable sin (like murder) are they no longer a Christian??

cadisneygirl76:
If you can't answer a question, don't!

Answer 1

I tend to believe that those who would denounce particular undesirables are showing an insecurity about their own faith.

This is not meant to be an insult. It is meant to suggest a possible reluctance to look at the (considerable) accumulation of negativity in 2000 years and reconcile that nothing is perfect - even their faith.

All of the Hitler, the Crusaders etc etc etc, all firmly believed they were Xians. Many were comitting acts (now identified as atrocities) in the name of JC, in the firm belief that they were protecting the faith. Simply denouncing them is childish.

I think the truly sorry thing is that people who'd denounce others as "not true Xians" tend to come from a broad range of Xian sects ranging from the Moderates to the Fundamentalists.

Making it difficult NOT to see the claim as meaning "those who do not follow my way of thinking.

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Answer 2

Look at it from a different perspective.

You're talking about human beings. Regardless of how devout a person is in their faith, there is the issue of pride. Regardless of the group a person belongs to, generally speaking, they don't want their group associated with negative things. Their pride causes them to want to distance themselves.

Add to this, the fact that history is written by the victor. The church was one of the strongest political powers for the better part of 2000 years (give or take).

Now you have the 'spin factor'. The Crusades were a holy war, meant to reclaim christian holy lands and artifacts. The church commanded the soldiers, who believed they were doing the lord's work, and therefore, felt they were right (hell, when I was in catholic school, studying history, the crusades were taught in such a way as to make the cause seem noble).

There are people with extreme points of view, within every group. Fortunately, there are also people who are rational enough to realize that you have to accept the mistakes (might be an understatement here) that their group has made, and learn from them.

Answer 3

I can't judge whether or not Hitler got forgiveness before he died. But as cadisney girl was saying . You will know them by their actions, and not just their words. A person can call themselves anything, but if they don't back it up by actions then they are not what they claim to be. And only God knows if Hitler ever ask for forgiveness. But if Hitler was the only example of a Christian, would any body ever want to be called a Christian again?

Answer 4

The scripture says, "By their fruits you shall know them", meaning that, the fruits they should be exhibiting are love, joy, peace, gentleness, kindness, self control etc. Do these things describe Hitler? Do they describe the Crusaders? Of course not.

Being a true Christian isn't just a matter of asking forgiveness of sins. A lot of folks (gangsters too) go to 'confessions' to a priest- but that doesn't necessarily make them real Christians. Make sure you understand what a true Christian is- it is one who has confessed Jesus Christ is Lord and believes that He was raised from the dead. That person should be making a concerted effort to live his life like Jesus did- in love and service to others. If there isn't an obvious change in their life after a reasonable amount of time, their 'faith' most certainly can be held suspect.

Answer 5

Hitler committed, or caused to be committed, multiple acts of unspeakable horror and evil. The Crusaders got into rape, pillage, plunder, torture, cruelty, gratuitious destruction, hatred, and lust for power and wealth. Oh yes, and littering. No doubt there was some of that, too.

The two examples clearly reflect people who called themselves Christians because that was their spiritual heritage, but they obviously are were not true Christians. Nobody who loved God and called Jesus his or her Saviour could ever have possibly behaved as Hitler and the Crusaders did.

Maybe that would be a good name for a band. Hitler and the Crusaders. No, maybe not.

Jesus, and those who truly follow Him, take no pleasure in the destruction of a sinner. The opposite is true. I doubt very much if Hitler on his deathbed, or a gasping-his-last Crusader, would thank your for your prayers beseeching God's mercy on a sinner.

I don't want to preach at "cadisney", the first smart-alec out of the gate on this question, but I feel I must.

He seems to saying that only intelligent people are smart enough to understand the intellectual depth of his answer--not the rest of us dumb-as-a-bag-of-hammers Christians. That may be so, because I didn't see anything more than a flippant and disrespectful dismissal of our "so-called" (sic) beliefs.

Well, Cadisney. Sic ye first the Kingdom of God, and His Righteousness. Then all these things shall be opened unto you--including the reason why pride is a deadly sin.

I say this, not to make fun of you (well not just that), but to point out that we Christians can apply our beliefs to our everyday lives, and be better people for having made that effort.

Answer 6

The question is, did they asked for forgiveness? A true follower of God wouldn't do the things that God hates, it's like saying you can do whatever you want, it doesn't matter because you can always ask for forgiveness. If they commit murder, they are shaming the name of Christ and those that believe Him. I heard people say often times, "oh that's how Christians are", and how many times we are hurt because we aren't the person doing bad things. He can be called Christian still, but not a true Christian at heart...so-called Christians.

Answer 7

Think of it like this; let's say I burgle you television. I can give a half hearted apology and you can drop the charges, but if I not only keep your TV but break in your house a second and third time, stealing my laptop and money, how far will it fly with you when I then cry, "Oh, but you forgave me; I'm under you grace! Are you backing out of your promise?"

Jesus said that if we love Him we'll keep His commandments. [John 14:15] Jesus said that if we says that if we walk in His light we won't tread in the darkness [John 8:12]. Jesus said that the greatest commandments were first loving God and second loving each other. [Mark 12:29-31] Jesus said that we could identify Christians by if our works were in line with His. [John 13:35, John 14:15] Look it up in the Bible; if someone doesn't match that then he isn't a true Christian.

In most cases, it's not our place to judge. [John 7:24] But we're to also serve God with out heart soul and MIND. [Matthew 7:1 ] I assure you that, unless Hitler had a sincere, on-the-cross conversion (which isn't likely; he committed suicide) I heavily doubt that he was considered right in God's eyes as he slaughtered hundreds and thousands of Jews and 'fellow' Christians.

Answer 8

People deny to this day that Hitler was a Catholic. Put it this way. If you have faith and believe in god. But you drink, smoke, curse etc. But go to church on Sunday. I say that's not a true Christan. Hitler thought he was doing gods work to exterminate the Jews. The bible says it's forgivable. So Hitler's work was forgivable??? You answer that question..

Answer 9

Good point.
I s'pose we want to distance ourselves from these other Christians because the critics will try to use it against us.
I read a verse the other day that made me think that Christians shouldn't throw stones at other Church's/denominations, Jesus said Mark 9;40 "for whoever is not against us is for us".

Answer 10

I don't believe that a Christian that murders someone is no longer a Christian...., I'm a Christian, I sin, I'm still a Christin, What makes you think Hitler was a Christian anyway? Maybe he never was? THEN YOU COULD THINK OF IT THIS WAY....... I COULD SIT IN THE GARAGE ALL DAY......... AND IT WOULDN'T MAKE ME A CAR............DO YOU UNDERSTAND?