Remember when the Catholic church used to lie about being the oldest form of Christianity?

Question

That's funny since the Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox used to be the same thing until an even divide in the 11th Century, which makes the latter equally old.
But what's even BETTER is that there were Gnostic, Arian and probably a dozen other varieties of Christianity running around in the first couple centures before the Catholic/Orthodox variety became dominant.
And guess what: becoming dominant doesn't make you right.

Answer 1

So, long story short, you're trying to say the Catholic Church is not the True Church. False:

If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13, CCC 813–822)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church.

His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2).

Although some Catholics dissent from officially-taught doctrines, the Church’s official teachers—the pope and the bishops united with him—have never changed any doctrine. Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8, CCC 823–829)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23).

But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10, CCC 830–856)
Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20).

For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28).

Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19).

The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20, CCC 857–865)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2).

These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself.

Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

Answer 2

You are focusing on a very important topic, and that's good. Your chronology seems to be off, though, and that's not good.

There always was an orthodox Christianity, from the very beginning. (I am talking about lower-case "o" orthodoxy, not Eastern Orthodoxy.) The Arian and Gnostic varieties in the late second and third and fourth centuries, not the first century or the early second one. This is the common conviction among church historians, not just Catholic and Orthodox ones. The evidence just does not support gnostic Christianities, much less Arianism, before or at the same time as original orthodox Christianity.

Early orthodox Christianity was not uniform in some regimented bureaucratic sense, but it was uniform in its core teachings and practices, well before the "variants" you list.

I will be happy to discuss with you in detail the chronology of early Christianity. I have listed a couple of major sources below. So far as I know they are neither Catholic nor Orthodox sources.

Blessings upon you, seeker after knowledge.

Answer 3

You are so wrong its almost funny. The Catholic Church was the beginning of Christianity. It was started by Jesus and the followers were known as "Christians" a word derived from "Christ". Gnosticism and Arianism "were" ("were" because of the fact that they truly no longer exist except in small numbers) heretical break offs of the early church. You should really read a book or two before bragging about how much you know, which apparently is not a lot. Oh and just so you know, the Bible as you have now was put together by the early church fathers.

Answer 4

The Catholics make that particular claim because they believe that when Jesus told Peter that he was the rock on which the Church would be founded, that he wasn't lying.

Do you have reason to believe otherwise?

The gnostics did not survive. They followed scripture that Catholics found to be deficient. The Gnostic gospels tend to be far newer than the others and seem to modify greatly the teachings of Christ as portrayed in the earlier authentic gospels.


I'm not a Christian, but I don't agree with your analysis of church history.

Answer 5

Became dominant? Uh... no. St. Ignatius of Antioch, a disciple of the apostle John, is probably the first to refer to the early church as Catholic, which shows the Catholic Church is the original and first and still here. Arianism and Gnostism are heresies.

Answer 6

They must say that the Catholic Church is wrong or else why are they Protestants? Yet they must also admit that not one of their denominations has any right to declare itself to be the one True Church. And that, for the simple reason that Christ did not estab­lish any institution which could be known by men to be His Church.


They are all brought up with that impression and so they continue in religious matters to wander where they will, like people in a forest, who follow any line of tracks without bothering to ask where it leads. And they so love the risky adventure of experi­menting for themselves that they search Scripture for every possible text which they think will support them.


All Christians admit that Christ intended a unity of some kind to prevail amongst His followers. But we cannot deny for ourselves what type of unity must prevail. The "all going the one way" type of unity, whilst each goes his own way, is useless if it be quite foreign to the mind of Christ. Who can accept the in­vention of Protestants who, noting the numberless ways in which they are divided, define the unity re­quired to suit themselves in their present circumstances and in such a way that they may remain where they are.


Those who believed all that He had taught would at least be one in faith. Again, He demanded unity in worship. "One Lord, one faith, one baptism," was to be the rule and baptism belongs to worship. The early Christians were told distinctly by St. Paul that participation in the same Eucharistic worship probably was essential to the unity. "We, being many, are one bread, one body; all that partake of one bread".
In other words, "The one Christ is to be found in Holy Communion, and we, however numerous we may be, are one in Him if we partake of the same Holy Communion."

Protestantism cannot preserve Christian standards in­tact. Articles of faith have gone overboard. Mortifi­cation and fasting are not required. The evangelical counsels of poverty, chastity, and obedience, with their consequent inspiration of monastic life are ig­nored. Protestant writings excuse, and even approve, laxity in moral practice. Protestantism has not pro­duced anything equivalent to the canonized Catholic Saint. Many of the Sacraments of Christ are not even acknowledged by Protestantism, whilst the heart has been torn out of its worship by the loss of Christ's presence in the Blessed Eucharist. Of spiritual author­ity there is scarcely a trace. The very clergy are not trained in moral law, and cannot advise the laity as they should, even were the laity willing to accept ad­vice. The prevalent notion, "Believe on Christ and be saved," tends of its very nature to lessen the sense of necessity of personal virtue.

Protestantism was a movement of heated dissent. Error and rebellion took the first Protestants from the Catholic Church, the various forms of error, or the various countries in which the rebellion occurred, giving rise to the various sects. But any goodness which the first Protestants took as doctrinal baggage with them was derived from the Church they left. And any apparent goodness in the teachings of Protestant­ism is still to be found in the Catholic Church. Where, in the Catholic Church, cockle sown by the enemy is found here and there amidst the wheat, Satan was wise enough to allow some wheat here and there to remain amidst the cockle of Protestantism. And it is the presence of this wheat which accounts for the con­tinued existence of Protestantism. But the wheat does not really belong to Protestantism. It is a relic of Catholicism growing in alien soil. A Catholic is good when he lives up to Catholic principles, refusing to depart from them. A Protestant is good when he unconsciously acts on Catholic principles, departing from those which are purely Protestant.

Answer 7

"guess what: becoming dominant doesn't make you right."
I just had to quote it.

anyway, you're right. good work and keep it up.

oh yeah, i found that TRUE Christianity doesn't divide itself, thus any Church which has schism( Catholic is Latin for many/bountiful) is not true. Thats why in the real church, all separatists are expelled.

Answer 8

True Chrisitans hate poverty, war, ignorance, sin, greed, pride and all the other works and fruits of evil. Why do you try to hate your fellow, your brother in Christ, who maybe says a few prayers differently than you do?

Answer 9

Since the Catholics BELIEVE they originated with Christ, it's not a lie to say that they were the oldest. They are simply contemporary with the others you mentioned. Saying they were the oldest doesn't say that there weren't others at the same time. That they did their best to suppress these others doesn't negate it either.

Answer 10

The Catholic Church tells so many it's hard to keep up! I grew up attending Catholic schools, an experience which has scarred me for life! (LOL) The one I dislike the most is the one about ONLY Catholics get to Heaven, can you believe the arrogance????