World War II Submarine Battle: USS Balao vs. Type IX U-Boat. Who wins?

Question

One on one battles between submarines were rare. Not counting surprise attacks when submarines sank enemy submarines, which usually involved surprise.

Here we have a late World War II American submarine squaring off against the most common long-range German U-Boat. Consider everything in this battle. Stealth, survivability of the design, weaponry. Assume crews of approximately equal capabilities.

Captains are free to fight submerged or surfaced, but ultimately the best combination of technological advantages wins the day.

Who would that be? USN or Kriegsmarine?

By late in the war the Germans had developed homing torpedoes. I am uncertain whether type IX U-Boats ever carried them, but the accoustic torpedo was available by 1945.

Another consideration, most submarines make some ambient noise, whether it be cavitation from movement through the water or screw noise, or sounds of electric motors. So it is possible to detect and locate another submarine without active sonar. But certainly active sonar is one weapon in the arsenal both captains have to work with. Properly used, it could give a smart crew a little bit of an edge--or it could blow a dumb crew's cover.

Torpedo problems were rampant in US Navy subs and aircraft in 1942 and 1943, but by 1944 had largely been corrected. Balao was commissioned in 1943. Type IX U-Boats were one of the most numerous types, and were built throughout the war.

In 1944-45 most American submarines had been equipped with active radar that could be used on the surface. Most U-Boats were not equipped with active radar, although they had passive detection devices primarily as a defense against airborne radar. U.S. radar on submarines was probably better than whatever active radar might have been on U-Boats.

On maximum depth for various types, U.S. subs could probably go deeper than the recommended maximum depths. USN tended to be conservative in setting operating limits. So it is possible the U-Boat and Balao could have had very similar depth capabilities.

US submarines were well-built, generally performed well, and were highly successful in Pacific operations. Both the Kriegsmarine and US Navy were plagued by bad torpedoes, but US torpedoes were improved later in the war.

The Kriegsmarine had a two-year head start on the US Navy in submarine combat operations. World War I experiences by Germans were not a significant advantage.

Answer 1

The ships in question are only as good as the crews that manned them. German submariners had quite a bit more experience in the world of submarine warfare, dating back to the first World War. On average, the officers and crew of the Kriegsmarine were more experienced than the typical US Naval sailor. This was true until the losess suffered by Germany forced her to put inexperienced officers and crews out to sea, to replace their staggering casualties in the Atlantic.
The main weapon of any submarine is its torpedos. The American Balao had 24 while the IX only had 22. The Balao had 6 tubes forward and 4 aft, while the German sub only had 4 forward and 2 aft. Simply put, the American could put more fish in the water and run a greater chance of a hit than the German.
The American sub is faster, 20 knots surfaced, versus 18 knots for the German. Submerged it wins again with 8.75 knots versus 7.7. Speed was critical with any submarine as it allowed the subs to escape escort vehicles and catch up to merchant convoys.
A good majority of the survivability of subs was how deep it could go (to escape depth charges, sonar detection etc) and the German wins this one hands down: 750 feet versus 400 for the Balao.
The deck guns for both subs are similar, the American mounting a 4inch 102 mm versus the German 105. While both had variations on range and velocity, both performed their jobs as they were intended to, put holes in ships.
The American sub put out over 5,400 hp versus 4,400 for the German.

I would sadly have to put my money on the IX. She had superior torpedos, better depth rating and better engineering for her equipment. The American was able to go faster, but weighed near 400 tons more than the German. The German could withstand more days at sea without refueling and resupply but that would eventually hinder the German as the American could refit and rearm with more bases away from the homeland. (even though the Germans had subs called "milk cows" that would refit subs at sea)

Answer 2

The German submarine would probably win primarily because much more experienced crew and Captain. Though the German's did take extremely heavy losses the U.S. submarines did bery little in the Atlantic area; the main submarine force and combat from the Allied standpoint was in the Pacific; the Germans had little trade going on and very little surface fleet action by this time so you have to look at location. It is a very unlikely scenario for a few reasons-the active snar at the time was not reliable for "sub hunting" use and the U.S. have very few submarines in the Atlantic. The surface to surface combat would have been even despite the minimal size difference-the Germanhad a dual purpose deck gun in 45mm was a straight anti-tank/aircraft gun placed on subs as wel as the larger gun while the U.S. was a shorter barreled version-less velocity and range. Actually the German gun, whether copied or purchased from the Swedish design was considered the best multi-use weapon of it's class. Caliber means little with those degree of difference-the German 75mm tank and 88mm multi-use guns were both hugely superior to the 90mm U.S. weapon much less the 76mm because of barrel length and velocity. The 50cal was superior to the German 12.5mm but again it is minmial. German crews were typically much better trained on the surface guns and more experienced. If one was submerged and the other surfaced the winner would be the submerged one; probably be the German because the snorkel had been "backfitted" at that timeframe to most of the older subs.

Answer 3

A very good historical question which I will star because of it's value. The us sub carried 2 more torpedoes then its German counterpart. This is not really a number that gives it that much of an advantage in sub warfare at that time. Subs at that time didn't fight other subs underwater that often, though it did happen. On the surface the German subs had the advantage with a bigger deck gun. In an encounter between these two I would give the US sub the advantage for the following reason. US skippers were better trained and had far more leeway to engage the enemy. The German skippers were far more controlled as to what they could and couldn't do. This means the US skipper could do what he thought was required to sink the German sub. The German skipper would be more apt to run and hide from the US sub. This action would give the US sub the advantage in a sub to sub battle during that time frame.

Answer 4

Just how would they fight each other submerged ?

How would they hear each other, without going to active sonar?

Which would tell everyone within 30 miles, just where they are.

How would they actually fight each other submerged, since they didn't have torpeados that could home in on underwater targets during WW ll ?

So they only way your battle could take place, would be for atleast one of the submarines to be on the surface.

And that pretty much means, which ever submarine, caught the other submarine on the surface, would win the battle.

And for a surface to surface battle,

The USS Balao had a 110mm/50 cal deck gun

The Type IX U-Boat had a 105mm/45 cal deck gun.

So the USS Balao would have a slightly longer range and do slightly more damage with each hit.

Answer 5

Type Ix U-boat

Answer 6

The Germans if the US torpedoes actually hit the target they probably wouldn't detonate.

Who ever designed the US torpedoes in WWII should have been shot for treason.

Answer 7

U.S. Navy.

Answer 8

Niether. There are no winners when there is war.