Another question for Mormons?

Question

i was reading some things about Joseph Smith as you know its hard to know what 2 believe so i'm giving Mormons an opportunity to clear it up.heres a section from a website..(It should be quite obvious that present scholarship has revealed that Joseph Smith did not translate the Book of Abrham by the power of God as he had claimed. We know for a certainty that the partial translation of the Kinderhook plates was obviously not a divinely inspired translation as well. It follows that if he did not translate the Book of Abraham by the power of God, and he did not translate the Kinderhook plates by the power of God, then it would be very easy to conclude that he did not translate the Book of Mormon by the power of God either. Obviously Joseph Smith had a vivid imagination and was perfectly capable of simply making up "translations" of real and imagined ancient texts.here is a link to the site http://josephlied.com/what.html

Answer 1

Just as you do not trust the writings of Joseph Smith and Mormons of the time, why do you trust the writings of other people from that time? It seems as if you are choosing who you listen to.

All I can tell you is what I know. And I know that I have read the Book of Mormon from cover to cover at least 4 times. I have concluded each reading by asking God to strengthen my testimony of his gospel and the Book of Mormon. Each time I have received a confirmation. I also know that when I do read the Book of Mormon and live its teachings, I am happier, and my life goes better. I know that the darkest nightmare of my life occurred during a time when I was going against my beliefs and the teachings of Christ and his scriptures. The instant I started to lean towards Christ again and eventually depend upon Him, my life turned around. I can tell you for a fact that God answered my earnest prayer to Him, to save me from my situation. I have seen it change not only my life, but the lives of everyone around me as they have read it. Even those who at first were skeptical, because they did not know what it was about. I have seen one of my best friends go from a state of agony and gloom to one of the happiest and most confident individuals I know ever since she read the Book of Mormon and was baptized by the power of the priesthood for the remission of her sins. For me to deny this would be a lie. I cannot do so. If you want to know the truth about the Book of Mormon, read it, and pray about it. God will make the truth known to you.

Answer 2

Ummm, there is a record that Joseph Smith looked at the Kinderhook plates. It is from William Clayton's personal diary. Mr. Clayton was the personal secretary for the prophet who's duty it was to record what the prophet did and said for many years. Much of his journal was used as a basis for the History of the Church. Many quotes attributed to the prophet used in church instructional manuals today came from his journal via the History of the Church. Obviously, the quote "I have translated a portion of them, and find that they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the Ruler of Heaven and earth." (History of the Church 5:372) was not one that the church felt was right.

So, you see, there is evidence that Joseph Smith told others that the Kinderhook plates were authentic.

As for the Book of Abraham papyri...just look at the actual translation of the facsimiles Joseph did include in the Book of Abraham and you can see that he knew nothing of Egyptian but was just making stuff up. Yeah, you can read FAIR all you want if you want twisted, convoluted rationale of how Joseph got some of it right. My response is to simply compare what Joseph filled in for the parts that were missing from the original documents used to create the facsimiles with what should have been there and you will see that it was just a cut n' paste hack job. They've even identified the locations in the fragments recovered in 1968 where Jospeh took characters to complete the outer circle of Facsimile No. 2. Makes you wonder what Joseph would have done if he would have had access to Photoshop.

So, tell me again how it is that we don't have what Joseph told others was the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand?

Answer 3

The Kinderhook plates were ahoax, and there is absolutely NO record anywhere that Joseph Smith even looked at them let alone tried to translate them.

The Book of Abraham papyri that we have today are not what Joseph Smith had because we have journal records and stuff that say that the papyri had red and blue ink on them, and that when they were spread otu, they took up more than two rooms.

Answer 4

The people who really have "vivid imaginations" are the authors of the josephlied website! It is a common anti-Mormon practice to present as historical "certainty" that which is not at all certain. The paragraphs you cited are perfect examples of this practice. The manuscripts from which Joseph Smith translated the Book of Abraham eventually ended up in Chicago, and many of them were destroyed in the great Chicago fire of 1871. While some fragments of these manuscripts were later discovered to have survived the fire, much of the original text had been destroyed. Contemporaries of Joseph Smith described what the papyri from which he translated the Book of Abraham looked like, and that description does not match the fragments we have today. This evidence strongly suggests that the papyri from which the Book of Abraham was translated have in fact never been discovered and were probably destroyed in the Chicago fire.

Furthermore, josephlied is not correct is saying that Joseph Smith translated the Kinderhook plates. In fact, he did not translate them.

You should be very careful in reading anti-Mormon sites. There are many who hate the Mormons and spread lies, distortions, and conspiracy theories about them. Others think they understand Mormon doctrine because of "what they've heard," but are actually misinformed. I think learning about Mormonism from actual Mormons (from Mormon missionaries, from Mormon members, or from sites created and maintained by Mormons on the Internet) is much better than trusting second-hand information.

To read more about the controversies surrounding the Book of Abraham, see http://en.fairmormon.org/index.php/Book_of_Abraham_papyri . In general, http://en.fairmormon.org is a great resource for answering these sort of "academic" Mormon questions. http://www.mormon.org is a great resource for answering questions about Mormon doctrine.

To learn more about the Kinderhook plates, take a look at http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=b6a8aeca0ea6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1 .

Also feel free to visit my site, http://www.allaboutmormons.com , if you'd like to learn more about Mormonism!

Answer 5

the people the made the web site are haters....they have nothing better to do than to bash on others people believes....i see them all the time at LDS general conference, pageants etc. screaming telling people to not believe in the church and the book of mormon. and most of them are hooked on some drug and get paid to do such things so they can go and get more drugs, i know because i've asked a lot of them why they do it. ha but anyways i am goint to tell you how i know the prophet did translate the book of mormon with the gift of tongues. its really simple, all i did was read a little bit of the book found it really interesting, and prayed with all my hart and asked if this things in the book were true, and i give you my word that the lord will answer you with a feeling like no other that you will know for sure that it is true.

Answer 6

It looks to me as if the initial premise of this website is that joseph did not translate by divine revelation, or that "joseph lied". Whereas the initial premise of my belief is that Joseph did not lie, and that he did in fact translate the Book of Mormon by divine revelation. Anyone investigating anything in a scientific manner knows that in order to make a comparison, there must be some initial grounds for comparison. Clearly there is no basic goal or starting place here.

It always seems to me that everyone here is trying to fit whatever information they find into what they already believe. They only acknowledge the answers which confirm their presupposed premis. Are you actually looking for answers, or are you looking for someone to confirm what you have already chosen to believe? If you really want to understand the truth of this subject, you should go directly to the source, to The Book of Mormon. You don't have to believe it, you just have to actually read it in order to form a legitimate opinion of it.

Answer 7

Diane,
I am a Mormon. I know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. He translated the Book of Mormon through divine assistance. I believe that the Bible and the Book of Mormon are true. I know that Joseph Smith restored the true church to the Earth. I also know for a fact that nothing of the world could give me such divine peace as I feel in times of great trial and tribulation. I can do no more than to leave you with my testimony that I know without a doubt that these words that I speak are true. "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not;and it shall be given him." James 1:5

Answer 8

This is an old debate continued on with the same agenda that anti-Mormons have held for years. With differences of opinion, some saying "lo here, and lo there" you have to decide for yourself what is truth and what isn't. Personally, I trust that God knows the difference. So, to me, the best source to ask is Him.
Accordingly, I have done so and have received a "witness" to the truthfulness of Joseph Smith's work. Likewise, you or anyone else can "know the truth of all things" by asking God, in humility and with a contrite heart, what the truth is. God has promised that he will reveal the truth to you through the Holy Ghost. To ask him, would be my "Mormon" invitation.

Answer 9

Well, Mormons believe that Joseph Smith did translate those things by divine revelation. And the people from the website "Joseph Lied" do not.. obviously. I'm not sure what needs to be cleared up really. This is purely a difference in opinion.

ETA: I have seen the site and it is just made up stuff. His translations are correct. Thanks for clarifying. :)

Answer 10

you had no question to answer. You are just trying to cause trouble. What I believe you can not change and I do believe that all Joseph Smith did with the Book of Mormon or of the Book of Abraham was divinely inspired and translated.