Pease, somebodoy explain the difference between a 'specialised' bullt and a 'dum dum' bullet?

Question

BBC World service says that the police who shot Menezes used 'specialised' bullets designed to 'instantly incapacitate' rather than pass straight through.
I may be wrong, but I thought soft nosed bullets were no longer accepted and I live in a country where most of the police force is armed.
Surely if you fire on someone, the purpose is to incapacitate. Since armed police in the UK are supposed to be specially trained, then it should be possible to incapacitate the target without killing him and without using 'specialised' bullets.

That's 'please' and bullet

I know what a dum sum bullet is. It is a soft nosed bullet designed to spread on impact. If it does go through a person, the exit wound is much larger than the entry wound. I also know that such bullets can be manufactured by cutting a cross in the nose of the bullet.
Such bullets are banned by international law. Now can somebody tell what a 'specialised' bullet is and what the difference is.

Answer 1

DUM DUM ROUND--WAD CUTTER USED AT FIRING RANGE-ILLEGAL TO USE IN PISTOL ON STREET--WOULD NOT WANT TO USE--DOES NOT HAVE THE VELOCITY NEEDED TO BE EFFECTIVE.

SOFT NOSED BULLETS ARE HOLLOW POINTS AND SPREAD WHEN TARGET IS HIT.

SOLID JACKET IS SOLID BULLET AND IS MOST DANGEROUS. ESPECIALLY WHEN COUPLED WITH 9MM OR 40 CAL.

INCAPACITATION IS USED WITH A TAZER, STRONG HAND TECHNIQUES, RIOT BATON, BEAN BAG GUNS, RUBBER BULLET RIFLES AND SHOT GUNS. POLIC USUALLY TRY TO INCAPACITATE SOMEONE AT THE LOWEST LEVEL OF THE USE OF FORCE AVAILABLE

(WE ARE LAZY AND DO NOT LIKE TO WRITE REPORTS EXPLAINING FOR PAGES WHY WE USED DEADLY FORCE, IN A DONUT SHOP WITH COFFEE ALL NIGHT LONG.)

BUT IF SOME ONE COMES AT YOU WHAT LEVEL OF FORCE WOULD YOU USE--YOU HAVE 2 SEC TO DECIDE AND THEY WILL BE WITHIN YOUR SAFE ZONE OF 6'.? THINK NOW.

Answer 2

here I list a few of the different types of ammo and refute some of your erroneous claims:-

Dum-dum bullets also known as hollow point bullets are actually designed to explode inside the victim, causing massive internal injury and, more often than not, death.

'Ball' bullets are the standard lead-coated-with-copper bullets

the 'specialised' ammunition you speak of may be glaser ammunition which is comprised of several balls of #12 shot in liquid teflon which are incapacitating and are fatal in 90% of cases

In the case of all bullets the exit wound is larger than the entry wound, not just dum-dum bullets

Hollow point rounds (or dum-dum bullets) are only prohibited by international law for use in warfare as they are deemed to cause unnecessary suffering. There is no international law which forbids them for police or civilian use. The New York state department of corrections caused a great number of casualties in 1971 with the use of hollow point rounds to suppress the Attica prison riot

It is very difficult to incapacitate somebody without killing them. In situations such as this police are taught to shoot through the medulla oblongata to instantly incapacitate a suspect, and lets be honest, if you were in the hot seat and somebody was potentially a suicide bomber would you take the chance? Following the Dubrovka theater siege members of FSB Alfa team walked through the theater shooting all the unconscious terrorists through the head. As one Alfa commando explained to the media after the event 'I know this may seem cruel but when a person is laying strapped with 10 kilos of explosive I do not see any other way to make them safe'

Answer 3

The police are well trained in the use of firearms. However we do not shoot at arms or legs to incapacitate in that way. We shoot at central body mass to 'STOP', not to 'KILL'. It makes sense to shoot at the largest target area. It may be that a shot at central body mass does kill, however the only intention is to shoot to stop. Again it depends on whether you are shooting with 9mm ammo or with a high velocity round.

The police actions on the fateful day De Menzes was shot were not what would normally happen. Tackling a potential suicide bomber is frought with danger. You cannot tackle them in the normal manner. No challenges could be made as any device would likely be detonated on the subjects realisation that officers were closing in on him.

Modern hollow point bullets are descendants of the expanding "dum dum" ammunition created by the British in an arsenal of the same name near Calcutta, in India, at the end of the 19th century and outlawed under the Hague Declaration of 1899.

The bullets, which expand and splinter on impact, were available to officers taking part in Operation Kratos, the national police drive against suspected suicide bombers which has been described as a "shoot to kill" policy.

Their issue was sanctioned after research suggested that they were an effective close-quarters ammunition for use against someone about to trigger a suicide bomb.

It is believed the decision was influenced by the tactics used by air marshals on passenger jets - where such bullets are designed to splinter in the body and not burst the fuselage. They have been assessed as posing less risk to people around the suicide bomber than conventional bullets but the effect on victims is devastating.

Like the overall Kratos policy, the decision to make dum dum-style bullets available was taken in secret. However, it is understood that the Home Office became aware three years ago that police were considering their use.

Answer 4

When Police shoot at a person there is no desire to "incapacitate" shooting people in the hand or a flesh wound is the stuff of of old westerns.

The object of the exercise, once the decision has been made by the officer to discharge his or her weapon is to stop the individual i.e. kill them that is why they are trained to aim for the main mass of the individual the torso.

I have no specific tactical knowledge of the Police service but have a little knowledge from elsewhere, I don't know what rounds are used but perhaps they are lower in fill to lessen likelihood of rounds passing through subject and injuring others, I doubt very much they would be using any soft nosed or modified projectile with the intent of causing exaggerated internal trauma.

Just done a little research the rounds reported will be hollow point see below:-

Sub Machine Gun - MP5
The HK MP5 is ubiquitous amongst armed police units around the world. It is ergonomic, accurate and reliable. Unlike the versions used by the SAS/SBS, all MP5s used by British police are single fire / semi-automatic only. Low capacity (15 9mm rounds apposed to the usual 30) magazines are also often used. Hollow-point rounds are used to prevent over-penetration - rounds passing through a target or wall and hitting a bystander. It is common for CO19 MP5s to be augmented with torches attached to the fore grip. Pictures of CO19 at the Stockwell shootings in July 2005, showed several officers brandishing MP5ks, a cut-down MP5 that can be carried concealed beneath clothing.

Answer 5

in the case of a suicide bomber you need him to be dead as quickly as possible. a soft nose to the back of the head will scramble he's brain and stop him from setting off the device. a dum dum bullet has a cross cut into the nose for the same purpose. it spreads on impact. its not nice and its not pretty. but then neither is a huge explosion in the middle of a crowd of people. if the government are stupid enough to go to war and at the same time allow the enemy to flood into the country by the hundreds of thousands then sh*t! is gonna happen.

Answer 6

There are countless types of ammunition used in law enforcement just as there is in hunting.

Law enforcement can use jacketed or semi-jacketed ammunition. When using a firearm the intent is to disable, if possible, rather than kill, but, one has to remember that a firearm is a deadly weapon and used as a last resort.

Other types of ammunition used in law enforcement that would disable rather than penetrate are bean-bag rounds.

Although rioters are occasionally killed by these weapons, fatalities are rare and usually accidental. Typical causes of death from non-lethal weapons include misplaced or ricocheting shots, as well as insufficient training on the part of the user.

As different parts of the body differ in vulnerability, and because people vary in weight and fitness, any weapon powerful enough to incapacitate is likely to be capable of killing under certain circumstances. Less lethal ammunition can cause contusions, abrasions, broken ribs, concussions, loss of eyes, superficial organ damage, serious skin lacerations, massive skull fractures, rupture of the heart or kidney, fragmentation of the liver, hemorrhages, and death. Medical assistance should be contacted immediately after an actual deployment of a less lethal munition even if no physical injuries appear on subject or subjects. Thus "non-lethal force" does have some risk of causing death: in this context "non-lethal" only means "not intended to kill". For this reason, two new terms, "less than lethal" and particularly "less-lethal", were coined and are now being used in place of "non-lethal" by many weapons manufacturers and law enforcement agencies (and even those who oppose their common use in riot control). This meaning emphasizes that they tend to kill or injure far fewer targets than traditional weapons, which primarily incapacitate by killing or maiming.

Answer 7

This is just another of the euphemism's used by the murders they were using dum dum bullets which have been banned for many years but are still used by the American and British police, it is funny how it took a so called expert marksman 7 shots to murder a man who was being held down, maybe he should be put into the United Kingdom team for shooting innocent people at the next olympics.

Answer 8

The 'special' bullet you are referring to is a fragmentary round, designed to stay together until impact (such as a glaser) while a 'dum dum' is simply slang for a wadcutter, which is designed to cut a smooth, round hole in a paper target.

Answer 9

There are many specialized bullets made to expand, shatter on impack to create as much internal damage as possible.

It depends on the caliber of the bullet, if it is for a hand gun or rifle. The make slugs for shotguns, these slugs will ruin your whole day.

Answer 10

You know what? The best kind of bullet is a shi.t bullet. You fire a shi.t at someone and they go straight to hell and eat the shi.t served on a golden platter while riding a charizard!!!!!!!!