God created the universe. He put laws in it and stuff. Im guessing the chrisitan religion agrees with me on this. Right?
So if god were to break these laws, to create a miracle, wouldnt it be cutting into our free will? That would just go to show that our free will doesnt exist because god could take it away at any time.
lets say you wanna kill someone. That is your will. Your about to murder this person within the laws of the universe, and suddenly god breaks them to save this life. He just took your damn free will.
I know im not being very clear on this, and that wasnt a good example. But do you know what i mean? God sets up this place with all these natural laws and says you can do anything within these laws (like physics) but then at anytime he can just throw these laws away...
2007-10-15 07:07:35 · 13 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Ok, i think i can make it more clear...
If god can perform miralces, he can break the laws. If he can break the laws, he can take your free will.
Its like if your mom says you can be home at whatever time you want. But you know that if you get home past 10 she wont like that. According to her rule she cannot punish you. And maybe she doesnt. But you know that if she wanted to she could punish you. So its like the free will isnt really there.
If miracles can happen then God can at anytime interfere with the natural universe, and take your free will.
2007-10-15 15:00:18 · update #1
Usually when a miracle happens, someone, somewhere was begging for it.
2007-10-15 07:14:26 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 2⤊ 1⤋
Realize that man is not the only creature that has "free will". So does God. He has the right to step in whenever he wants and overrule the laws of nature, or even the will of another person.
He can do this because he is an "authority". It is the same right that allows a parent to overrule the will of their four year old child, an employer to insist that be at work everyday at 8:00, or the state to pass and enforce rules which infringe on your right to do whatever you want.
"Free will" does not mean that you are in total control and nothing or no one can stop you. You are stopped all the time by your parents, your spouse, your employer, peer presuure from your friends, the laws of the country, etc.
"Free will" simply means that you are able to make moral decisions and are then held responsibile for those decisions.
In the case you gave, the person was able to make the decision to murder someone. And they will probably face consequences for that action - charges of attempted murder, retaliation from the person they tried to kill, etc. God's saving them did not in any way hinder your ability to make the decision to try to kill them. He merely kept your actions from succeeding. Nothing in "free will" guarantees your actions or decision will succeed.
2007-10-15 14:23:18 · answer #2 · answered by dewcoons 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
To put it as nicely as I can, you don't make a very valid argument.
For example, I have a pet albino clawed frog. He has free will to do whatever he wants. But does he? I just broke his free will by putting him inside a big bowl of water. Now he has limited free will. I choose what he eats. He can still choose when to eat it, but I choose his food. I can grab him and smother him whenever I feel like it, and I just infringed on his free will. Does that make me God?
All these things could be percieved as miracles to the frog because he doesn't know what's going on. He doesn't know the laws that are set in place. In the same way, we don't know the laws set in place. We don't know the full extent of our free will. And neither should we tell God that He's not giving us our free will. Maybe he's just limiting it. I honestly believe God knows more about our free will than we do.
So who's to say miracles break any laws at all? Didn't God write the laws? How can man, who's never read God's laws, be so sure of himself to say that God's breaking any universal laws? We can write a law and try to confine God, but will it hold Him? Do you expect God to obey man's understood laws of death, gravity, time, space, and thermodynamics?
2007-10-15 14:22:31 · answer #3 · answered by Christian #3412 5 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Creation itself is a miracle. Yes there a physical laws governing it, but all of it only exists in the first place because of the miracle of God’s creative power. In other words, you’re living in a miracle every day.
Now, my understanding of a miracle is that it is a grace from God, usually at the request of someone. What this means is that God never intrudes or invades someone’s life. He gave us free will and respects it always. He only enters someone’s life if they ask Him to. I think the same goes for miracles. You have to ask, which is an act of the will.
2007-10-15 14:22:43 · answer #4 · answered by Danny H 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
If your will is to ask God for a miracle, then how is that denying you your free will? If, using your example, it is the person about to be murdered asking for the miracle and the person about to commit the murder that you are saying has lost his free will, then you are misunderstanding the concept of free will. Free will means that we have the right to accept or deny Christ, in the OT it was the right to follow the One True God, I Am or to follow after other gods. It doesn't mean that God can't keep you from doing something like murder. It means that He won't force Himself upon you, following or rejecting Him is your choice!
2007-10-15 14:18:19 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
Your argument is loaded with fallacy. If God existed, and if the whole free will thing is true, He could still do whatever miracles he wanted--you'd just still be free to do whatever you're able to do and desire to do. That's like saying if I were to stop you from killing someone that you would therefore no longer have free will. No, you still have free will, I just got in the way of you performing your free will by exercising MY free will.
Think these things through before you post them!
2007-10-15 14:17:59 · answer #6 · answered by average person Violated 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Wouldn't it be exercising your free will to Pray for the miracle in the first place.
2007-10-15 14:16:01 · answer #7 · answered by courage 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
If God heals someone,or does some other miracle, I do not see how this infringes upon me at all.
BTW if i decide to murder, I HOPE God intervenes, I pray this.
2007-10-15 14:13:48 · answer #8 · answered by great gig in the sky 7 · 1⤊ 0⤋
I think a good movie to watch on this is "Sergeant York". It could be that the miracle that caused Alvin York to turn to God was via the fervent prayers of intercession by his mother.
God values free will. He also knows what it takes to bow our boney knees.
2007-10-15 14:13:01 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 4⤊ 1⤋
God can do whatever He wants...whenever He wants. He can give you free-will...and/or take free-will away from you.
Technically, we ARE free agents. But NONE of us have "free-will". We are bound to our nature, and we will what we do because of our nature...
Non-Christians are slaves to sin. They can't not sin...even if they were to try!
2007-10-15 14:15:19 · answer #10 · answered by savedbygracethroughfaithinJesus 2 · 1⤊ 1⤋