Did you know that in early Watchtower literature it was claimed that Charles Taze Russell was God's?

Question

"faithful and discreet slave" ?

How do you explain the Watchtower Society's change of postion on this very important issue?

The Harp of Gd ( published in the early 1920s ) states: " Without a doubt Pastor Russell filled the office...and therefore that wise and faithful servant, ministering to the household of faith meat in due season" Page 239

The Watchtower magazine (5. April 1920) in page 100 said " No one in present truth for a moment doubts that brother Russell filled the office of the ' Faithful servant' "

Ibid, page 101
" The Society by overwhelming majority vote expressed its will in substance thus: Brother Russell filled the office of ' that servant' "

C B: If they are not better or worse, why they claim to be the only organization who can interpret the Bible right?

Webboffi..: LOL. And you think that you have the Bible facts right?

Answer 1

Nina they still claim that. they Claim that the Governing Body of today are still his Faithful and discrete Slave...even though they have been wrong over 600 times...

here is the link:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AluC0kgGcqHQBZCaBKlpL1fsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20071014204759AAfgDQ5

According to the Watchtower of March 1, 1981, the Faithful and Discreet Slave had its beginning in 33 CE with the first century congregation. We read the following:

"Witnesses of Jehovah understand that the "slave" is comprised of all anointed Christians as a group on earth at any given time during the 19 centuries since Pentecost."

How did this 19-centuries old slave perpetuate its unique teachings? That is, how was the "spiritual baton" passed from one generation of the slave to the next? The Watchtower furnishes the following reply in the January 15, 1975 Watchtower :

Jesus Christ is the head of the congregation, his slave, and his words show that he would strengthen them to feed his "domestics" right down through the centuries. Apparently one generation of the "slave" class fed the succeeding generation thereof, as well as continuing to feed themselves.

What was the nature of the food dispensed? The Watchtower of July 15, 1960 defines it as such:

Down through the years the slave like congregation has been feeding its true members faithfully and discreetly, from Pentecost, A.D. 33, up to this very present hour] this has been lovingly and carefully performed. Yes, and these "domestics" have been fed on progressive spiritual food that keeps them abreast of the "bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established."

To summarize, The Watchtower teaches that the faithful and discreet slave has existed since Pentecost 33 CE and that each generation of this slave class has fed the succeeding generation. The quality of the food dispensed, according to the Watchtower Society, has always been of a superior nature than that of the previous generation. Or has it?

In speaking to Jehovah's Witnesses I have noticed a disconcerting confusion on their part as to when the slave had its beginning. In fact, among the rank and file there seems to be no true consensus as to the time of its origin. This is because; contrary to what we just read, the Watchtower has also said the following:

"Thirty years later found a small group of men, not associated with the Adventists or affiliated with any of the religious sects of Christendom, studying the Holy Scriptures at Pittsburgh (Allegheny), Pennsylvania, U.S.A. ...They studied independently so as to avoid looking at the Bible through sectarian spectacles."
God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached pgs 185,186

"The true doctrines of the Bible had been so twisted throughout the period of apostasy that no clear vision of Christ's second presence would be possible until these doctrines themselves had been cleared up....It was not yet God's due time to bring about his restoration of true worship."
Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose pg. 14

Here it becomes evident that the society has taught two contradictory teachings about "the faithful and discrete slave." On the one hand they claim that it has always functioned from 33 CE continually dispensing progressive spiritual food down through the centuries, and on the other hand they claim that rather than a perpetual feeding of healthful teachings, it wasn't until 1914 that true worship was restored. This, however, flies in the face of the above-quoted Watchtowers.

If the "slave" has nourished Christians on essentially healthful spiritual food, and if it has done so continuously and uninterruptedly down through the centuries, then why would the great teachings of Jesus and the apostles need to be restored as claimed by the Watchtower? Wouldn't they be perfectly in tact?

Lets say for arguments sake that there really was a faithful and discrete slave class functioning down through the centuries. The following questions would emerge:

1. After the post- apostolic period we find that Christians were in a very wide spread area of the earth. Who formed this one and only "Slave Class?" Who comprised this collective group that allegedly served as God's sole channel of communication to supply the same spiritual food for the genuine Christians of the second, third, and fourth centuries?

2. What about historically? Since history is by no means silent on religious development down through the centuries, why is it nothing can be found that acceptably fits the Watchtower Society's description of a single on-going entity functioning down through the centuries as the one and only feeding source for all true Christians in all places?

3. Why not point to the "slave class" in the 18th and 19th centuries when information is more abundant and where history can be found in minutiae?

4. If the Bible cannot be understood without the "slave class," and if just private study of the Bible is deemed ineffectual and contrary to God's historical way of providing understanding, why didn’t C.T. Russell contact the 1900 year old" Faithful Slave" to understand his Bible?

5. Didn’t Russell act untheocratically by striking out on his own in 1879 "independent" of the then existing "faithful slave organization"?

6. If one generation's spiritual light was followed by even greater spiritual light in the succeeding generation, then it only stands to reason that after 1900 years of ever illuminating light, this light would be dazzling with a blinding brilliance! Why is it then that we find C.T.Russell in 1879 heralding a false presence of Christ, a false resurrection date, teaching that blacks will become white in the millennium, (Watchtower 4/1/1914 Watchtower4/15/1900) looking forward to going to the star Alcyone, believing Michael the archangel to be the pope of Rome, (The Finished Mystery) measuring the floors of the pyramid of Gizeh and making scores of prophetic statements that would one and all prove to be utterly false?

7. Why is it that there is archeological evidence to support the people mentioned in the Bible (which adds to the Bible's credibility and authenticity) and yet such evidence is missing in regard to the" Faithful Slave"?

8. Furthermore, if throughout two-thousand years one is categorically unable to identify a composite body of believers who fits the Watchtower's description of the faithful slave, how is it possible to claim it ever existed - let alone define its teaching content as "progressive"? Based on what data can one make such a qualification if one is unable to identify "the slave" in the first place?

These questions merit answers. Jehovah's Witnesses usually respond to such queries by saying that "there have always been faithful men," or that "Jehovah knows his people." Such vacuous replies however do not even approximate a valid answer. Just imagine if one were to respond in such an imprecise and evasive manner if the historicity of Christ were called into question.

In fact, Unlike the Watchtower's "faithful and discrete slave" teaching which cannot furnish one visible body of individuals over the last 2000 years as a historical link to it's alleged modern-day counterpart, the succession of witnesses to the historical event of the resurrection can be traced generation after generation to our present day.

Answer 2

Russell never claimed to be the faithful and discreet slave. However it is true the 'Society' did at a later date. The Watchtower has made a lot of changes over the years. They are no better or no worse than any other Christian sect, except for the disfellowshipping thing. That is genious. Ultimate control. Damn people to hell on earth, very smart way to maintain control. Fortunately, I now know what is right from wrong and it doesn't take a church or a kingdom hall to get there.

Answer 3

No change actually so you are factually wrong. But I have corresponded on your earlier through email and I know you have a lot of misunderstanding of the Bible such as your claim that Jesus didn't really die a sacrificial death.
Your posting against JW's is ironic since you have lack of even some basic biblical knowledge yourself through our emailing each other.

The thing about the Bible and Jehovah's Witnesses is that they can point to the Bible where their beliefs come from. As you well know Nina you have demonstrated your side without a scripture to call on.

Answer 4

dazzling unearths One stunning discovery replaced into that William H. Conley, an Allegheny, Pennsylvania banker – no longer Charles Taze Russell – replaced into the 1st president of the Watch Tower association formed in 1881. This replaced into an exhilarating locate for no person at headquarters knew Conley replaced into the 1st president, or that Russell’s father, Joseph, replaced into vice chairman and Charles Taze replaced into secretary-treasurer. The appointment replaced into in line with shares offered for $10.00 each and each. through fact I handed over the source checklist quite much in the present day, I’m no longer particular of the right form of shares Conley offered, yet i think of it replaced into 350 for $3,500. regardless of the incontrovertible fact that, I do bear in mind that Joseph Lytel Russell offered one hundred shares for $a million,000.00, and Charles Taze offered 50 shares for $500.00 looks to me they don't be attentive to each thing approximately their organization and from the above it might look has alot to do with the almighty greenback.

Answer 5

Charles t Russell testified under oath that he could read Greek and that he alone translated the bible writing the "New world trans.(The JWs bible) When asked to read 2 words in Greek for the court he was forced to admit he committed purger y ! the words he was asked to read were,,#1 Greek-#2 Scriptures. Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't lieing under oath a sin worthy of dis-fellowship from the JWs? Today the JWs say it is against there beliefs to swear on the bible, Russell was in court sewing his former congregation for the rights to the bible he lied about translating,I thought it was against there beliefs to sew some one in court of law. Russell was also quoted to say that "If you have my bible guide books and the watch Tower/Awake magazines you no longer need to read the bible" I have to Wonder if all those people who join the Jehovah's Witnesses would have given then a 2nd look had they done a little research learned about there founder Charles T. Russell , I haven't talked about his devorce!

Answer 6

Yes, but Jehovah's Witnesses CONTINUE to believe it likely that Charles Russell was a member of the "faithful and discreet slave [class]" which Jesus discussed at Matthew chapter 24. Of course, Jesus' words also note that the "slave" would have to prove itself, which Jehovah's Witnesses feel that Russell and his associates certainly did.

(Matthew 24:44-51) Prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that you do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming. “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.


Despite what this question might imply, it seems impossible to ignore that Russell could not have been the only member of the "faithful slave [class]", since the "slave" was to supply spiritual food to Christianity and not merely to 19th and 20th century Christianity such as might be possible during the lifetime of a single prominent human. Thus, Russell himself never claimed to personally be "the slave" and even privately he merely guessed that "the slave" might refer to The Watchtower magazine as a whole (which is still not exactly right). Yet, Russell didn't write or speak publicly about those guesses.

Interestingly, Jesus continued his discussion of "the faithful and discreet slave [class]" by noting that a parallel "evil slave [class]" of merely ostensible Christians would emerge. Amazingly, this "evil slave [class]" would NOT conscientiously preach a parallel (perhaps slightly different) message of "good news" and spiritual food. Ignoring the command to preach "good news", this "evil slave [class]" would instead work merely to 'beat their fellow [Christian] slaves'.

(Matthew 24:44-51) Prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that you do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming. “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings. “But if ever that evil slave should ...start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites.


Thus, Jehovah's Witnesses cannot ignore the irony when anti-Witnesses choose to use Matt 24:45-48 as another club with which to beat their fellow Christians. Jehovah's Witnesses cannot ignore that their religion has plainly been assigned and blessed over all Christ's "belongings", since their relatively small religion is almost universally recognized as the greatest evangelizing effort the globe has ever seen.

Learn more:
http://watchtower.org/e/jt/index.htm?article=article_04.htm
http://jw-media.org/people/ministry.htm

Answer 7

I used to be associated with the JW's and...

My mom was a baptized Witness for 23 years, and I went to Kingdom Hall services until age 15. Let me tell ya, the organization has changed position on a lot of issues. That's a principal reason I'm no longer associated with them.

Answer 8

Because like many (not all just many) this organization thinks it's touched by God and that they don't make 'mistakes' but make new 'discoveries' in the name of God or are 'inspired' to change their own edicts.

Answer 9

Politics. The watchtower only reflects current thinking like anything else.

Answer 10

give us a link ,or stop the BS