Do u Agree?

Question

ALL Martial arts follows a "Pattern" or a "Form" the ONLY way u can actually be "formless" is to.....DO NOTHING!!!!!

If you look at enough Krav Maga videos.....u even see Recurring Patterns even it That! I see Patterns in the Ninpo-Ryu's ,too
You CANT Do ANYTHING without a form!

Answer 1

Yes its very true yar.

Answer 2

I've thought of this for some time, and I don't agree. I played baseball from t-ball the whole way into highschool. When I was 5 or 6 I focused on the "form" of batting, or the correct way of holding the bat, how far to step with the front leg, which hand was up, how tight to grip the bat, where to place my head so my eye would be on the ball, and all that jazz. By the time I was playing in highschool, I was "formless," because I wasn't thinking of these things. Instead my mind was nowhere, just ready to hit the ball.
The same is true for martial arts. You learn a martial art, be it Wing Chun and it's 3 forms, or Isshinryu Karate and it's 8 kata, or Shotokan and it's 35 kata, or boxing and it's combinations. But, after years of studying any martial art, when a situation arises where you have to use your studies, you're not thinking "down block/straight punch," or "jab/cross right/uppercut." You're not thinking anything. So the advanced martial artist, in any style, is "formless."
This, though, is different than the "formlessness" of not having any style from which to draw upon. A story goes, that in the old days your belt started white, but as you studied it got dirty. Green from Grass. Brown from Dirty. Eventually so dirty it got black. Over time that belt would become white again. That "white" was not the "white" of when you started.

Answer 3

I think it is not the question of is there any (yes, I also agree with you, there's always recurring patterns), rather how many and how complicated.

Reaction time depends much on how many different solutions you have from for any given situation. The simpler the art is, the smaller the number - if you need to put up a show, or spar/ring fight it is usually better to have bigger variation - it makes the style more interesting. If it's about self defense, one has better chances with less chances and more practice put in those few. Still: must have some form - and the less of them the more solid they are. Of course if they are simple enough, it might be harder to label them than complicated flashy combinations.

From a different point of view - the form is what defines the style. If there is no form to identify how do you tell the style from the others? Even 'mma' players/fighters have their own root styles that one can tell from the way they move.

Answer 4

Every martial arts follows a "pattern" simply becos we all have 1 head and 4 limbs. Unless you can have 3 hands and more legs, then there will be a general rule to how human being fights.

It is good you had scratch the surface of martial arts, but your assumptions are just that - surface.

In essence, I will give you an example that you might understand. Everyone uses money and money means everything, lets assume. You can't do ANYTHING without money! Wrong. Money is just a trading tool. So are martial art techniques just a mean to an end.

Remember, you become better with actual physical repetition, not just by thinking DEEP thoughts.

Answer 5

That depends on a lot of things. Form and formless aren't terms you use at extremes, and I hope you didn't get this from thumbing through the Tao of JKD.

What the instructors do essentially is give you tools, and in most cases: Teach you the traditional way of applying them. You can modifications in the way things are done and applied on your own in many styles, and that's what should be done: The balance of being "Formless," but having form. Think of it as being given a screwdriver: There's a variety of technicians that can use the screwdriver on a variety of things, but it's usually used for a screw. That doesn't mean you can't use it to pry things open, break things, et cetera....

JKD, for example, has techniques in it, but it doesn't say "You do a face pick here and ONLY here." It also doesn't say how and when you throw the attack necessarily, but it's own pattern of what is considered to be a good opening. This happens in many marital arts:
- In Capoeira, the Meia-lua-de compassso ("Half moon of the compass"- Spinning touchdown back kick) is a counter kick, but I've seen people use them succesfully to start things off. The instructor will tell you that's when you should use it, but it doens't mean you have to always adhere to it: Practicality is about what works for you.

-JKD: Bruce Lee stated that high kicks are bad ideas due to risk in fights, but "Nothing is written stone," which means if you have opening for a good finishing high kick: You should do it.

There's various rules such as this, and frankly: The arts that teach sparring of some sort break your concept down completely. If they didn't: Every sparring match for every art that emphasize xyz fighting range would be the same every time.

Answer 6

it comes down to what do you really want from your teaching?? Forms are beutiful.. I am very thankful of the forms I learned.. the benefits (proper balance, technique, and dicipline) I learned forms with techniques in them, that the technique weren't even explained to me until a few years after i first learned them... then you do the form with much more "purpose".... but most ppl just arent patient enough for all the "culture" and "dedication" that is truly envolved in becoming proficient at some styles... so they will talk bad about them... instead... the idea of "I want to learn to fight now" comes into play... and there are some very good arts... that dont take away class time to teach (to me these are valuable lessons) these valuable lesson, and only focus on the ability to fight NOW... it is just a difference in philosophy.. noone is right or wrong.. just there opinion... what I suggest is tryin to learn the other side of the argument

Answer 7

"You CANT Do ANYTHING without a form!"

In my life I have never heard "Anything" as groundless as this!

You have "No Idea" what self defense is about!

Ask a Marine how many "Forms" he had to memorize in the hand to hand combat drills!

I taught basic Martial Arts for years,(basic American Karate),It was common sense that these housewives and bookkeepers were not up to learning a dozen or so forms! This was "Action / Reaction" self defense,also known as "Situation" self defense.

Examples:
Someone puts you in a headlock,what to do.?
A punch to your face,what to do?
A bear hug from behind,what to do?
Someone grabs your wrist,what to do?
Someone grabs your lapel,what to do?
Someone attacks you as you exit your car,what to do?

I could go on for an hour!
Every one of these students did very well in learning these basic moves.
One of my female students was grabbed by the arm one night while walking to her car after working late.
She "Reacted" as she was trained and dropped the man to the concrete,got to her car and called the police.He was arrested and it was found that he had committed several assaults in three different cities.
Forms are used to "Ingrain" the moves of a Martial Art into a students brain so that they become "Second Nature"
Don't get me wrong,"Forms",Patterns","Katas",are very much a part of any true style,as they should be!
But to say "You CANT Do ANYTHING without a form!"
Is "Completely Wrong!"
I think it is time to for you to stop "Criticizing" what you know little about and start training and learning something about Martial Arts!"

Answer 8

What's wrong with having a form? would you want to start building a house without a blueprint? Wouldn't you want a map if your going on a road trip? A form is helpful.

Answer 9

wrong, if your using memorization(pattern.form) while fighting you are going to get destroyed.
pros will pick up on what your doing in the first 10 seconds and make you pay for having the balls to step into the ring.

Answer 10

NO! thats not true it a load of bollaks