Is Mohammed the only prime figure of a religion whose historical existence is beyond doubt?

Question

There is considerable debate, and NO contemporaneous evidence, as to whether Jesus of Nazareth ever existed. Sorry, Baha'i, Christians and Muslims (who all acknowledge him). We KNOW that the pharoah (Ramses II) existed, but no one to my knowledge has ever shown any evidence that Moses existed. Sorry, Baha'i, Christians, Muslims and Jews (who all acknowledge him).

Are there any NON-religious sources of references to Buddha during the time he was supposed to have lived? I don't know! You tell me!

There are MANY references to Mohammed in NON-religious sources DURING his lifetime.

IS he the only one?

I meant "divine," or semi-"divine... but as folks are correcly pointing out, there's confucious, lao tsu, Hubbard & Smith. Very good! Just the kind of thing I was looking for! Thanks. But no one has addressed what I asked about Buddha, though.

Oh! Thank you, Neil, I forgot about the Rastas!

Sorry Vorunhut, there are a large number of references to Mohammed in non-religious sources DURING his lifetime. No reputable historian questions that he ever lived. That doesn't mean I acknowledge any special traits to this man -- just that he existed. There are NONE of these for Jesus or Moses, though.

Can anyone cite any for Buddha?

Read with your eyes, AJ, not your prejudices... next?

Pontius, you cite religious sources (the bible), which are by definition unreliable because they are written by people who belive that their truth needs no evidence and can;t be questioned, and the only NON-religious sources you cite are NOT contemporaneus -- for instance, Josephus lived many years after the alleged lifetime of Jesus.... next?

Sorry pontius -- I forgot that you mentioned your namesake... what writings of his? Where can they be read/verified? Who translated, believers or historians?

Sorry Arily, I'm not talking about morals, religious clout, correctness, or anything like that -- I think all religions are bunk. I'm talking about historical existence.

Answer 1

Hi.
You really need to learn a little bit about the nature of historical sources.
One main point is that they are affected by culture, age and their subject.
I should say before I go any further, that I not a member of any religious sect or belief. I am not Christian, Budhist, Islamic, etc. etc. I am, however, a scientist (specifically an archaeologist). So I am somewhat familiar with this topic.

Buddah: Born Siddhartha Gautama around 300 BC, and was a prince of a small kingdom called Lumbini (part of modern day Nepal). The written (civil not religious) records of the time record his birth, marriage and the three palaces that were constructed for him.

Jesus of Nazareth: A Jesus (Yeshua) is recorded in the census of Quirinius (6 BC), legate of Judea under the Emporer Augustus. He is listed as the son of Mary and Joseph, residing in Nazareth. Again, these are civil not religious records.

Zoroaster: While his existence as a real person is not disputed (he lived around 900 BC), but all the evidence is in what could be legitimately called "religious" writings so for purposes of this discussion he "doesn't qualify".

Lao tzu (Laozi, Lao Tse): Not a religious figure per se (he was a Taoist philosopher), lived during the 6th century BC. Again, he is widely written about in the non-religious histories and commentaries of China's Warring States period.

Joseph Smith: (1805 - 1844) Founded the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (aka Mormonism). Census, birth certificates, photographs, etc. attest to his "historical reality".

There may be more, but those are the ones I know of off the top of my head.
The point is, while it is certainly true that Muhammad ibn ‘Abd Allāh's historicity is well established, the same is true of many other major figures in the world's religions.

Answer 2

Jesus is not alone in being worthy of suspicion as a biblical figure. The problem is that - while the likes of David, Herod etc - are all widely recorded in other historical documents from the period, Jesus is not. Not a page. Not a word until the gospels were written around 4 generations after he is supposed to have lived. Now this is a big ask. Without evidence, I may not believe a character from 1850 you tell me about existed. But then you give me a record of what he said and did, written only today, with no other documentation in between of any kind at all - do you think this evidence would stand up in court?

Answer 3

There are a small number non-Christian writen references to Jesus in the first Century C.E. (I believe three but they are very credable sources) and they mention him as a teacher or rabbi or troublemaker. There is a much larger number of written references from Christian sources in the first Century C.E. most noteably written by Paul who also was written about by many other people (both Christian and non-Christian). We don't have the original texts but there are many (as in thousands) of copies and many fragmentary copies that date back to the first and second centuries. Very few ligitimate scholars question the existence of Jesus. Their opinions of him as a man or a God or of his teachings of course vary. He was a Jew and taught from the Hebrew scriptures. These limited types of historical proofs for people in antiquity is common as texts were written by hand on scrols or papyrus and the originals usually didn't last long. Since Jesus didn't do any writing himself and since originally his movement was considered a minor sub-group within Judiasm not much was written about him until the third century when Christianity seriously began to replace pagan religions throught the Roman world. A number of original Gnostic texts from the early second century were discovered in Egypt in the middle 20th century and they wrote about Jesus. The historical Jesus is probably quite a bit different from what most modern Christian think but few serious scholars doubt that he did exist and that he was the founder of a religious movement that evolved into todays Christian religion. And BTW it is King David that few modern scholars believe existed and there is zero acheological proof of his existence.

Answer 4

We know that "Ramses II" existed because we have human remains that are certainly human remains and we call it "Ramses II" even though Egyptologists don't have a clue as to the pronunciation of the symbols in any accompaning cartouch, few such symbols are pronounced correctly; but we know the mummy corresponds to one of the Pharaoh's, and we know that "Ramses" is a Biblical place name in Egypt.

We know that certain historical figures existed, Abraham Lincoln, Copernicus, Sir Isaac Newton, Catherine the Great, King Louis the XIV. Proof of such is based on historical proof in documents, reports, and books, and is based on the course of history itself.

The existence of the Jews and the Arabs and the fact that they are at strife is reflected in the Biblical reporting of this situation already anticipated in the book of Genesis in the story of Isaac who fathered the progenitors of those two peoples. And both report that Abraham is the father of Isaac, and there is very detailed narative of the life of Abraham.

I think it is the case that if you take the 5 bigest religions in the world, it would be very difficult to find anyone among those who deny that Jesus existed.

Answer 5

Islam means "submission to the will of God". Muslims accept the Qur'an as the word of God revealed to Prophet Mohammed(Peace be upon him). Islam states that Allah sent messengers and prophets throughout the ages with the message of the Unity of God, and accountability in the Hereafter. Islam thus makes it an article of faith to believe in the earlier prophets, starting with Adam and including Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, John, Jesus and many others (May peace be on them all).

The Most Concise Definition of God in Islam is given in four verses of Surah Ikhlas which is Chapter 112 of the Holy Qur'an:

1. "Say: He is Allah, The one and Only.
2. "Allah, the Eternal, Absolute.
3. "He begets not, nor is He begotten.
4. "And there is none like unto Him."


Allah (SWT) need not come down personally for writing the instruction manual. Over the ages Allah has chosen men in every nation to deliver the Divine message. Such chosen men are called as messengers and prophets of God


"We Muslims believe, that Jesus was one of the mightiest messengers of God that he was the Christ, that he was born miraculously without any male intervention (which many modern-day Christians do not believe today), that he gave life to the dead by God's permission and that he healed those born blind and the lepers by god's permission. In fact, no Muslim is a Muslim if he or she does not believe in Jesus!"

Answer 6

Since Muslims in Iran Wail and worship at the Tomb of the late Ayatollah Khomeini would it be fair to think that Muslims Worship at Mohammad's Shrine In Medina?

Answer 7

the "considerable debate" started about 100 years ago.

there's more convincing evidence that the Holocaust never happened than Jesus never happened, or at least was just a copycat.


no, he's no the only one. How about Joseph Smith? Ron Hubbard? Baha'ullah(the founder of Baha'i)


lost.eu/21618

Answer 8

Mohammad is the only religious leader (not counting denominations) where there is documentation from his lifetime of him existing. Most scholars believe Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, etc. lived even though there is no documentary evidence of them from their own times. The only one with some serious doubts is Lao-Tsu.

Answer 9

The only people that debate the existence of Jesus Christ are people that believe all the garbage the see on the Internet. Jesus Christ is the most well documented figure of the ancient past.No historian out there would deny his existence, they may debate was he a prophet, just a man, or the son of God but they all agree that He existed. The problem is that most look for the name of Jesus Christ. This name will never be found for it didn't exist. Christ is a title not a name. The real name of the son of God is Yeshua Ben Yosef. Through this name you will find records everywhere such as:
Holy Bible
Nag Hammadi
Dead Sea scrolls
Writings of historian Josephus
Letters written by Pontius Pilate himself.
Many roman documents and writings.
Due to the travels of such as Paul, Jesus is found in writings from all over.

No matter what is said though one must believe, few will put the hours into searching it out.

Regarding Mohammed you are right, there is much documentation regarding him also. Sorry no knowledge of Buddha having records of existence.

Hope this helps.


I listed the Bible figuring you were already aware of it. Josephus was born in the year 37 AD. Yes thats still after Christ but not much later. The book of Mark was also written after.
The letters of Pilate are most commonly found put together in a book dated 1928. Most of the originals are are scattered in museums and collectors homes. The translations into English I could not tell you who did them of the top of my head. The originals were written to the likes such as Tiberius. Pilate never got over the events that tooks place. I was hoping you were a seeker but it appears you are a sceptic influenced by the unlearned such as Acharya S (zeitgeist).. Put the time into researching it out. It doesnt matter to me what you believe, but for your own peace of mind you should search it out. I assume you are in America if so start with learning the Bibles of old. In Pheonix Arizona is a museum of antique Bibles and writings that is amazing and they hold lectures teaching about it, highly recommended. if you can't get there then log in to their site at www.greatsite.com and read Bible history. I have been a customer of theirs for some time. They also hold a travelling Dead Sea scroll exhibit which is awesome. If able but I know most can't take trips to places like Rome, Israel, Jordan, Turkey, Egypt etc. (no I havent been to them either but coming soon) I don't really know what to say to convince you but research it out. I am not a typical Christian, I reject the christianity of churches and the bibles they read from. You see I have quite a collection myself and the Bibles sitting on my shelf dating from 1385 to 1660 are very different from todays. I have many antique writings some going back to the BC era written in Hebrew on deer hides. Of course none of these probably count because they are all of the Godly writings. Please do not be decieved, I have no doubt that you are an intelligent person but if you need evidence it will take lots of work and expense. I spent years searching out the truth and have thousands of dollars into books. I have been to more exhibits than most people knew existed. I have no doubt that Christ lived and my personal belief is that he is the Son of God. You may disagree and that is fine. The Roman era has mentions of Christ throughout. Like I said, no historian or archealogist doubt his existence but there are many different beliefs in who he was. I hope you find your answers you are looking for, but seek from both directions not just one.

Answer 10

Jesus existed because Mohammad said so in the Hadeeth and God said so in the Koran

Anyway Jesus never wrote or got anyone to write down a jot of his existance while he walked the earth, the Bible was created 200 to 400 years after Jesus.

It is interesting to know what Gospel did Jesus have under his arm when he went out preaching!!!