My dear brothers and sisters in Christ, what is your opinion on this?

Question

Hello all! I pray that you are all doing well this afternoon. I have been reading from the OT and I just think that it is fascinating! In Genesis 32 we read about an encounter that Jacob had that left him limp.
Jacob wrestles with God:
...and a man came and wrestled with him until dawn. When he saw that he couldn't win the match, he struck Jacob's hip and knocked it out of joint at the socket.
Jacob: I will not let you go unless you bless me.
Man: What is your name?
Jacob
....Your name will no longer be Jacob,
it is now Israel because you have struggled with God and men and you have won.
........Jacob named the place Peniel for he said "I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been spared."
Conteplating this very real encounter Jacob had, I was struck by the meaning of it.
Israel means "God struggles", or "one who struggles with God."
We see that this is a parallel of future events. Israel will struggle with God and with man, and just like Jacob overcame

overcame his struggle with the man in the night, Israel overcame and will overcome in the future. This is a paralled and I think possibly a prophecy of future events! What do you think?

Answer 1

I think people don't get zapped (saved) having everything in their lives changed and fully equipped to minister. Instead, I see the Bible telling us that we are first babes in Christ in need of milk. Only later are we to be mature and need meat.

Another way of describing physical or spiritual growth and development is the process is a "struggle." What child doesn't struggle. And what child of God doesn't struggle with God.

You can spiritualize the text to make it say or mean anything you want.

However, I look at Jacob's struggle and at the end of it, see a changed man...to the point his name is changed. I would do as well to struggle with God and be transformed by it.

So I am glad to see the unique upbringing of all of God's children. I thank God that Peter took his eye's off Jesus because if I got out of the boat, I know my Savior won't let me drown if I keep looking at the waves that get between me and Him.

Or if I have a burning bush experience, I might argue with God too. I need to know that my God is my Daddy who loves me and guides me in all my ways.

The struggle is the normal part of growing up. What is it that we struggle to learn? How to:

Love God with all our hearts....
Love our neighbor as ourselves...

This is the summary of the law (Mt 22) we all fall short of. It is the same law that Jesus fulfills.

Think about. When did Christians stop being Jews? Jesus was Jewish. The upper room was filled with Jews on the day of Pentecost. The 3,000 responding to Peter and then the 5,000 men were all Jews.

Since we join the church which began being totally Jewish, at what point in time can you identify it stop being Jewish? If you can point out a time, then please tell me why the church adopted the Hebrew scriptures as its own?

Jesus died on the cross to fulfill the law given to the Jews and if He died for your sins, you recognize the law as being your own religion. What religion acknowledges the laws of a foriegn religion?

Edit: Consider that Jesus came to His own and His own knew Him not. Why do you think that occurred and what can we do not to do the same thing?

Try reading the Messianic scriptures and saying, "I would have gotten that right!" Really? What makes you so sure?

Answer 2

This can also be construed to symbolize the struggle the Jews had with Christ, and the true Israel that will someday emerge as believers in Christ as the true Messiah, some already have as we know and it is likely that these Messianic Jews are the ones to fulfill the final destiny of Israel.

Answer 3

In a more general sense struggling with faith and love is a struggle that will inevitably leave you wounded and limp but ultimately blessings will come out of it for you. The big messianic issues not withstanding - which only God knows the time of their unfolding - our personal struggles in search for meaning are more pressing and are worth confronting.

Peace

Answer 4

You've just gotten rid of a bloodthirsty warmonger. If you're praying at all, it should be out of sheer relief. Also, this isn't a foolish answer, so no need to report it - I'm just disagreeing with your position.

Answer 5

It explains our struggles that we go thru in life and exercises our faith for Jacob did not let go he stayed there till he got blessed its a symbol for us and how we are to believe God and not waver in our faith but stand till God blesses us

Answer 6

Yes it is and God will have victory. The jews will be coming to Jesus as we see more and more of today. NOte how many mesianic jews there are today. WOWOWOW.

The things of the past will be again.

Jesus is coming soon. LEts be ready folks.

Answer 7

Never heard it like that, but it sounds like it could be possible. I'm one who is very interested in the end times and am researching it a lot.

Answer 8

This passage has long been one that puzzled me in its depth. It appears that Jacob is winning and that God "cheats" by dislocating his hip. The man who wrestled with Jacob was obviously God.

The name Jacob is from the word for deceive. It was given at the time of his birth. He lived that life by deceiving others including his brother often. And because a deceiver normally find another like him. He is also deceived.

The real change in Jacob's life doesn't come with the wrestling. When he meets his brother he again deceives him. So the change from deceiver to striver began with the struggle with God but didn't become reality until later in his life if at all.

But I see a similar but different parallel in history. At first Jacob struggled. As he deceived, so did his own children deceive him. He bore the heartbreak of believing a son was dead and of having another son in prison. He appears to have been largely a broken man who found some peace near the end of his life.

His sons who deceived him continued to be deceived and apart from creating the tribes who bore their names, they seem to have accomplished little except to reconcile with their brother.

The story of Israel the nation is a story of struggle and of failure. The whole cycle of Israel is their falling away from God. Over and over we hear how they went back to false idols, were injust, and cared little for the widow and orphan.

Even David falls from faithfulness and is lead by lust to murder and adultery. His son, said to be the wisest man in the world, falls to his own lust. His many wives (more than any ten intelligent men would care to have) lead him into the worship of multiple idols and he dies a broken man.

From there the Kingdom and Israel completely fall apart. With a few rare exceptions, they practice widespread idolatry and disobedience to God's laws. First they divide and then the Northern Kingdom falls to God's wrath. The Southern Kingdom is spared because of one of those rare kings who tried to live by God's law. But in the end they also are carried into exile.

When they rebuild their nation they again fall into sin. This pattern continues through the rejection of God's Son and the fulfillment of the Son's prophecy. With the destruction of the Temple which God brought upon the Israelites they lost the ability to obey God and worship sacrificially. To this day they cannot carry out the God designed worship as God in his wisdom has not restored the Temple.

As I write this, I do see a parallel with what you wrote. The parallel is Jacob's wrestling with God. He had to learn that when man struggles with God, they will lose. God demands obedience to his truth and whenever mankind establishes their own truth their struggle with God brings them to face the truth of their own deception.

I think this is why Paul realized that there could not be salvation through the Law. Mankind's constant struggle with God will always lead to disobedience and destruction. It is our very nature.

Paul clearly understood that mankind could only win when they surrendered to God and opened themselves to His mercy and Grace. Even then Paul understood that unless God literally changed our very nature we could never complete that walk.

So in the end, I believe that Paul learned the lesson of Israel. Struggling with God will always lead to deception and failure. Only when we surrender can God use us and change us.

Sorry, this became typical of my early "sermon" scripture brainstorming. :-)

Also, I don't want this to sound anti-semitic. The Israelites are God's original Chosen and God has promised to restore them. Every Christian in my opinion need to understand that they are our brothers and sisters and that we need to work to preserve the promise to Abraham.

Pastor John

Answer 9

Actually, this sounds like a very good interpretation of that happening. I never heard it before.

Answer 10

Scripture is what interpreters call "polyveilant", which is to say that one passage can have more than one meaning. So, you may be correct.