Dear friends, what should do our government and our army, regarding the never ending horror of the PKK ?

Question

Do you think that our country should , at last, strike the camps and the bases of those coward terrorists ?
Those monsters stop the otobus in the roads and kill all the people inside, and they kill our soldiers.
I hate war, but actually our country just can't sit down and watch those crimes forever ...

If US army is in Iraq, as they say that Iraq was a Al Quaeda base, despite of the HUGE DISTANCE ; if Israel army entered and striked Lebanon last year, and they even killed 1500 people ( most of them were civilians !!!! ), because the Hamas had a base there ; so WHY we don't have the right to react too ?
The USA can strike even if the danger is 10 000 km away from NY. And us, can't we just strike, for a MATTER OF DEFENSE, just at our door ???

What's your opinion ?

Those who agree with me, please can you star the question ?

Ooops, I forgot to mention, of course, OPERATION IN NORTH IRAQ...I suppose that everyone had understood it...

Diane, your answer is either a total ignorance or a lack of respect...
You DO know what I mean

Edit for Frank B :
It's interesting to get the opinions of non-turkish people, of course.
But if you think that my view is "very narrow", as you say, so I suggest you go and tell you "geopolitics lessons" to the families of the victims.
I also wonder why you don't criticize Israel's crimes ...Just explain me...
For you, it's ok to kill lebanese civilians, and it's not ok to kill kurdish terrorists ?
Your view is obviously double-standart.

Regarding the consequences of a tukish operation, you are mistaken.
There are millions of Turks who have kurdish origins, and there are millions of "mixed" children ( I also have kurdish cousins), and those people don't all support the terrorists. Most of the victims are even kurdish, you know.
There will never happen a "unity" of these people, if we decide to strike the camps. Our intervention won't enhance their motivations, on the contrary we will break them.
And tourism industry won't be affected so much by this crisis.

Our economy deosn't depend on the tourism financial benefits. And as you knwo, our economy is increasing very fast...There are more and more investors from all around the world, and even Greek investors have bought a turkish bank.
There will never be an intervention of the international communauty : Do you seriously think that we are not in our legitimate right to defend our territory ? We are not Serbians who exterminated thousands and thousands of Muslim Bosnians in former-Yougoslavia. NO. We are Turks who want security and peace, that's all !
As Anlarm said, yes we also have to find some solutions in order to solve the poverty and discrimination that exist in the SouthEastern Anatolia region. When this region will get a real financial health? i suppose that the current problems will become just bad memories.

Answer 1

Another short answer provided by Mr. Bobo

I would always advocate a diplomatic solution instead of an act of war.

However as "Mehmet K" said;
1.Never bargain with terrorists or their supporters.
To do so would just reinforce a negative act with the desired outcome. Then Terrorism wins and would be encouraged to use more of the same tactics to achieve more of what it considers positive results.

"Young Turk" you may not that know Turkeys military and industrial complex has been working very hard to update and improve indigenous weapons design and manufacturing. In the not too distant future future Turkey may even become and exporter of military hardware.

on the following link take note "all 3 invited American manufacturers had abandoned the competition entirely"

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/turkey-shortlists-2-attack-helicopters-updated-02397/#more

But look where the PKK weapons are coming from;

http://www.npr.org/templates/dmg/popup.php?id=13935620&type=1&date=24-Aug-2007&au=1&pid=33020617&random=6253641464&guid=00068E78310A06C65CEFC65961626364&uaType=WM&aaType=RM,WM&upf=Win32&topicName=News&subtopicName=World&prgCode=ATC&hubId=-1&thingId=13928634&ssid=&tableModifier=&mtype=WM

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=13928634

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/washington/30contract.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

http://cns.miis.edu/research/wmdme/crui_dep.htm

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1908042/posts?page=1

See who is even bidding on Turkish military hardware.
http://www.ssm.gov.tr/EN/duyurular/proje/Pages/20070417_tloramids.aspx

Look at the GÖKTÜRK RFP and New Type Submarine Project responders in link below.

http://www.ssm.gov.tr/EN/duyurular/proje/Pages/default.aspx

So I do agree on one hand but disagree on another.

But don't you think that the PKK wants more than ever to force Turkeys hand, and have it make an incursion into Iraq.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2186530,00.html

Turkey is a soverign state and has to do what is best for Turkey. It cannot sit and wait to make a decision based on EU membership, NATO, or United States pressure.

The United States cannot control its own borders how can it possibly give advice on controlling Turkeys borders.

We all know that if the Iraqis/(USA) wanted to remove the PKK training camps and bases, they would be gone in one week.

Didn't somebody once say; “A nation which makes the final sacrifice for life and freedom does not get beaten” and “Sovereignty is not given, it is taken.” how else can you have “Peace at home, peace in the world”

A clear ultimatum must be given and severe consequences for it's violation.

When I believed in the Easter Bunny I thought that "War was the failure of diplomacy" Now I know there is no Easter bunny and that "War or the threat of war is diplomacy's greatest tool"

Answer 2

I agree with Anlarm´s first two points - improving the economy, infrastucture and education of the population of the east will take away much of the temptation to join or tolerate PKK ideology. Also, supporting their practicing of their culture and language removes the "us against them" mentality, they run out of reasons to feel oppressed and underprivileged. This doesn´t mean to support their calls for a seperate state, it is just acknowledging them as a valid group within Turkey.

Here in Germany, the Bavarians call their state (Bayern) a "Freistaat", meaning it is a seperate state of their own. It isn´t really, it´s just another province, like the others. But Germany humours their demands for "special status" to a small degree, and so they feel happy. It is a similar situation in Canada with the "Quebec seperatists" (the French part). Of course, niether the Bavarians nor the Quebecouis are attacking with guns, but granting a little special status to Kurds in exchange for peace may also stem too much further support for PKK or separatist ideals.

Striking into Iraq seems very tempting at times, I agree. Certainly the Turkish army is very skilled and would do well. But this action would carry a lot of international and political consequences along with it, so it must be very carefully considered.

These are only my opinions but I do not live there, and I respect the other viewpoints! An interesting question! Bye!

Answer 3

I think your view is indeed very narrow.

Turkey -as any other country- can enter any war. That's easy. Very easy. The question is how Turkey will exit from that in 20-50 years from now... Even more, PKK does not really have a base. An organized army. PKK is everywhere and recruits everyone. Anytime. PKK's power lies in the hearts and minds of its followers. Turkey cannot really fight or even win these feelings with a war. It will only ignite them. If so, Turks will loose because this war will be carried out inside Turkey and -trust me- will never end.

The consequences of this war will be detrimental:

1. PKK might earn the sympathy of the west (see Palestine, Armenia): "The poor and brave PKK fighters against the monstrous army of Turkey". I see this coming fast.

2. Tourism will slow down affecting millions of Turks and unemployment will rise.

3. Political unrest will affect investments and growth and these will affect the economy and will increase the Turkish debt (or you thought armies are cheap?).

4. The war will divide the people once living peacefully together (Kurds will be united here).

5. International community will finally intervene and ask for cease fire and call for discussions between the...2 sides: This way, Turkey has just legalized its enemy! and Turkey did it all by itself!

Unfortunately, Turkey will enter the war. But not for Turkey. For reasons that I don't have the time or space to tell.

Anlarm's suggestion provides some solution to the problem.


Edit to Fatih: I don't really use double standards. The whole world has criticized Israelis and Americans for their politics. I really think this war will not do any good to anyone and particularly to Turkey. You really need to increase the living standards in East Turkey, invest on and educate the people that live there! It will take time. But it will solve the problem in the long run. Your solution will bring chaos to Turkey. And unfortunately we will be all here to see this. You really think that an operation will change the minds of people? Will make them think otherwise? will eliminate them? they will wake up and admit you are right? This is somehow narrow minded. Don't you think? Or else give me one good example where such an operation has previously really helped any nation in the past...You will push Kurds to the limits and will unite them like never ever before. Not all. But many more than now.

USA still pays a heavy price = their economy goes down the last 5 years. So do Israelis. And you have not seen the end of it. Wait until the oil runs out and when nobody will care anymore...about Israel or the Arabs. Young Turk gives the reasons behind the "who is really pushing for that war" attitude. And as i said, no matter what, you will go to war! Not because you want it. But because westerners must sell. And sell and sell... Until your debt will go up in your ears for the next 50 years. This is a modern type of slavery. And there is no way out until local people will wake up.

Other than that, I did not mean to offend anyone...:)

Answer 4

To solve this problem at least three things have to happen.
1) Tighten the border with Iran and Iraq so the drugs can't come in, tighten them at the airport so they can't get out.
2) Put an end to corruption on all levels, the drug business is big business for many people in the police and government.
3 and biggest) do the opposite of Tansu Ciller's 'drain the lake' policy and enrich the area, put the teachers back in schools, give people a job to go to and an image of themselves as valuable to Turkiye to keep them out of the PKK. Most of you don't know what it is like to be a Kurd and know that everyone dismisses you as an ignorant villager who is probably a criminal with no education. So the skin is brown and the accent is thick: their heart is just is big as yours and the brain is just as quick. I love my Kurds and I honor them. Address the social problem leading to the PKK nd the political problem will shrink too.

Answer 5

I don't know. We have been trying to find military solutions to sociological problems for the last 20+ years. It is not like striking one target and its over. We have to regain the trust of the people. Show them that we care. It is not easy.

Maybe we should ask Kenan Evren and Turgut Özal how to get out of the mess they got us in with their neglect and hidden agendas. Oh wait Özal is dead and Evren already has an answer
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/6037244.asp?m=1


EDIT: If there is a crime (And this is one of the huge crimes ever) always look who has the most benefits.
Lockheed Martin
Raytheon
Boeing
General Dynamics
Bell Textron

Kurd and turk only have each others blood on their hands.

EDIT2: OK then "kill kill kill" is another option, lets try it for the next 25 years then, see if it works! Those who couldn't tell the nature of the problem, I advise you to read Ret. Brig. Gen. Osman Pamukoğlu's books to see what was going on there.

EDIT3: All I'm saying is, there is a social dynamic there which sends people up in the mountains. We have to aim at this, and not with weapons. It is really not that easy.

Answer 6

There are a few things the Turkish government do.
1- Announce a comprehensive plan to be implemented as soon as possible, to bring more civil rights, democracy, economic growth to southeastern Turkey.
2- Denounce all racist remarks against Turkish citizens of ethnic Kurdish origin.
3- Start a diplomatic initiative all over the world explaining the horror PKK is causing (a- inviting all ambassadors to Çankaya and briefing them. b- publishing whole pages in major newspapers in all western capitals. c- Turkish ambassadors giving a 'note' to the governments of all EU countries, Russia, USA etc.)
4- Inititiating a sudden military operation across the Iraqi border and crashing PKK once and for all, using whatever it takes, tanks, helicopters, jet fighters etc.

edit: Diane, with all due respect, I sense a threat in your message.
edit: in practice eastern Turkey is a little backward in everything. what I mean is in practice democracy needs to be improved there.

edit: Jeny, well expressed. That was what I intended to explain.
edit: Mehmet K., I know how much the government has spent in the region. The point is that those expenditures need to positively change ordinary people's lives, not just the rich 'aga' and 'asiret' leaders. You need to make sure that the ordinary man in the street will say: this government/state is doing something for me.

Answer 7

The US army has no right to be in Iraq and create chaos. It is wrong.
Similarly, the killing of civilians, as you said yourself, by Israel in Lebanon was an atrocity.
So if you try to justify an action by these 2 examples, you don't have a good excuse. These countries commit crime because they can. It doesn't make it right. It's like saying : " A big drug dealer who has good lawyers got away with it and got rich. Shouldn't I also pass heroin to teenagers and make money?"
I am always in favour of a peaceful solution. If Turkey really wants to, I am sure a peaceful solution can be found, without resorting to violence.

Answer 8

The poverty in southeast isn't the result of lack of rights. It's the result of the culture that are Kurds are so keenly trying to protect, i.e. feudal system, suppression of women, lack of education and such.

This "culture" has prevented them to see through PKK's plans and PKK's terrorism drove away even what existed. They killed teachers and doctors, they drove away enterprise, caused existing manufacturers to go away, stopped cultural tourism. So, if southeast wants prosperity, terrorism must stop and the "culture" that suppresses women and takes advantage of the poor must come to an end. Read older Yaşar Kemal novels for an enjoyable enlightenment.

As for current situation, Turkey must act like the powerful nation that it is. If US is overlooking PKK activity, then it's "advices" must be overlooked, too. If current Iraqi so-called government is so powerless as to leave the business of governing to northern feudal lords (oh, yes, their beloved Barzani and Talabani are feudal lords, too. Isn't it nice, US administration submitted into the hands of feudal lords the upkeeping of democracy! :DDD) then Iraqi administration is to be overlooked, too.

We must return back to the measures that minimized terrorism before the reign of Sultan 1.Tayyip Han. Short live the king.

Answer 9

We cant call it as a war.

War means between 2 or more countries.
With fighting terrorists is called operation.

We don't want to concure Iraq and get their petrol . We want to kill these terrorists.

Turkey has enough force to protect it self. Other countries opinion is just an opinion. Not less not more.

War and peice must be honor. Other wise we prefer not to live.

Answer 10

I do feel so sorry, and of course Turkey has the right. However, I think that would not be helpful. The government should calmly and carefully consider everything over and over to find a lasting solution.