Knowledge of God...?

Question

"If the Christian has discovered a new means of perception, I am perfectly willing to listen to his claim, provided that he is willing to argue for his assertion...He claims to have experienced God, but refuses to explain the process by which he, a physical organism, experienced this supernatural being. Has he discovered a new sense? Can it be tested? Can he explain, not only what he claims to know, but how he acquired this knowledge?"

((questions 'borrowed' from George H. Smith))

American Beauty, is there any other belief that is "just there"?

Answer 1

I came to faith in Christ by the conviction of the Holy Spirit. I realize that this cannot be tested and it's something that you really have to take someones word for. As I came under conviction of the Holy Spirit, I saw myself as a sinner and came to know that I was in need of a Savior. I was drawn to the Bible, as some people say, "I developed a thirst, or hunger for it." I have felt the Holy Spirit of God so plainly that I can't explain. I have experienced an electricity flowing through my body when in His presence. I also believe from the things that can be seen. God wants to reveal Himself to each of us, but the funny thing is, when we come to faith in Him, THEN He reveals Himself. If you don't know Him, you are missing out. Seek Him and you will find Him...From the Old Testament alone, more than 2000 specific prophesies have been fulfilled.
No other so called Holy book compares.Most of the 333 prophesies concerning the Messiah were fulfilled by the birth and life of Jesus Christ and the rest will be fulfilled at His second coming. A mathematician, Peter Stoner, had his graduate students calculate what the odds would be of any one person fulfilling just eight of these prophesies. He found the chance was one in 100,000,000,000,000,000 !Only a God who knows the future could have revealed these prophesies to those that He would have record them in His Word.

In spite of what is being taught today, the truth is we can reconstruct most of the life of Jesus Christ through non - Christian writers of the first century. Even Celsus who despised Christianity, never considered claiming that Jesus Christ did not exist.This is what can be learned from the writing of Celsus...

He was born of a virgin in a small village of Judea;
He was adored by wise men;
His birth was followed by the slaughter of infants by order of Herod;
He took flight to Egypt, where Celsus supposed Christ learned the charms of the Magicians;
After returning, He resided in Nazareth;He was baptized and the Holy Spirit descended on Him as a voice was heard from heaven;
He elected disciples;
He was a friend with publicans and other low people;
He cured the lame and blind;
He raised people from the dead;
He was betrayed by Judas;
He was denied by Peter;
In addition Celsus refers to several details of Christ's passion, crucifiction, and resurrection.

Twenty seven books of the New Testament, nineteen Pagan writers, and three Jewish writers testify to Jesus Christ's historical reality. When I hear people say that Jesus or the Bible is just a myth I just realise that they are simply unaware of the facts.I recommend The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel and or Skeptics Answered or The Gate Of Hell Shall Not Prevail by D. James Kennedy, and The Signature of God by Grant R. Jeffrey. May all your thoughts be taken captive by the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Answer 2

In a way, it can be tested. There was a survey done back in the early 70s by the government to see which drug rehab clinic had the best track record for rehabilitating addicts. They found that Teen Challenge had a high margin of success. They then did research to find out what they did differently from all the others. Everything they did was just like all the others except for one thing. They called it the "Jesus Factor".

Basically, what scotgirl described in her answer above is what these addicts experienced. Most took drugs because they were trying to fill the emptiness or lack of meaning they felt inside. The 60s left many a teen bewildered and lost. Billy Graham wrote a book on it called the "Jesus Movement". Francis Schaeffer wrote a great book on what caused this plunge in spirit called "How Should We Then Live?". The indwelling of the Holy Spirit changed lives, and the government could not explain the difference it made. It just did, and the facts supported it.

Answer 3

The Bible does not seek to prove the existence of God. The fact that there is a God is assumed throughout the Scriptures. Before anything came into being, He was “In the beginning God.” The first verse of the Bible begins with the assumption of His pre-existence. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." God's existence is presented as a statement of fact that needs no proof. The man who says that there is no God is called a fool in Psalm 14:1. We also need to connect this verse with John 1:1-5 which clearly states that Jesus was also there at the beginning of creation with God, therefore validating His eternal Sonship. The Holy Spirit also took part in creation. “The Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” Genesis 1:2. The triune God created the heaven and the earth.

However, even apart from the Bible, there are certain evidences for the existence of God.
Consider the following:
(1) Mankind has always believed in a universal being.
(2) Creation must have a creator. The universe could not originate without a cause.
(3) The wonderful design, which we see in creation, demands an infinite designer.
(4) Because good and evil exist throughout the world, we must assume there is a moral law that divides good and evil. Since there is a moral law, there must be a lawgiver.
(5) Since man is an intelligent, moral being, his creator must have been of a much higher order in order to create him.

Answer 4

my answer to your removed question:

>>"As soon as one realizes we are limited to 5 senses, 100 years, and 1 perspective, is agnosticism necessarily the only conclusion?"<<

you assert this... but why?

if you accept that assertion, then I completely agree.

but, to put it rather simply... speak for yourself.

being honest, with this assertion, you cannot know that others might not be limited in the same way.

are you really so sure that people are all limited to 5 organic senses? if they were NOT limited in such a way, would it not be possible for others to more certainly know more?

---

now continuing that for this,

>>"but refuses to explain the process by which he, a physical organism, experienced this supernatural being. "<<

that is inadvertently, pretty much a strawman argument.

but really its just an incorrect assertion. ... we are not physical organisms. we are spirit organisms currently occupying a physical form.
when you understand that, then it makes so much more sense that there would be perception beyond the physical.

of course its not testable, but only because science as we know it, is limited in scope, to the physical.

if you were born without eyes, would you be able to truly comprehend the experience of seeing, or seeing colors? no. you could make gross aproximations through for example, comparing to textures... but you wouldn't know what SEEING would be like. it would be completely impossible for you to understand it. and even if you randomly once in a while di happen to, since you would not be accustomed to processing that information, you'd probably inteperet it differently ANYWAY, and without further experience with it, you'd not have a basis of experience with which to comprehend it in more detail.

Answer 5

Unfortuanately everyone who ever had such an experience can only say it to us because their experience was on a personal level. The reasoning behind it would bring a lot of questions because in 1 part of the scripture it says the Holy spirit will reside with anyone who recieves it, forever but many religious people only get this feeling of the holy spirit in the church.

U don't see them speaking in tongues, trembling as though they're epileptic on a normal daily basis. Then there are those who claim to recieve visions from God or heard his voice and so on.

The same way i can't tell if they're halucinating, it's the same way they don't know if it is truly from god.

Answer 6

There are some things...physical things, even...that you just have to experience for yourself. Nobody can explain to you what chocolate chip cookies taste like, all warm and gooey from the oven, or what the taste of salt water from the ocean is like on your tingling lips as the waves swirl around you, or how snow smells when it is deep on the ground...it would be easier to invite you over for home made cookies and milk, or to take you out to the ocean and let you wade in the water, or take you up north late in January or early February, when you can almost guarantee that the ground will be buried under a blanket of snow.
Unfortunately, it is not so easy to give you the experience of knowing God. Yes, there is a "spiritual sense", but nobody can explain to you how to use it, any more than they can tell you what it feels like to run your fingers over an Old English Sheepdog's long, furry coat. It is just one of those things you have to experience for yourself.
I have said before...I wish, desperately, that there was some way to tell you about my experience of knowing God...that I could give you detailed instructions on how to open up your spiritual sense...without coming off as "sanctimonious" or "holier than thou"...because, believe me, nothing would make me happier than to embrace a new child of God into the family.
Believe me, it isn't that I refuse to explain the process...it is that I honestly don't know how, any more than I know how to tell you how it felt to hold my newborn baby for the first time.
If you have any ideas for me, do, please, let me know.
And may God bless you, whether you believe in Him or not.

Answer 7

It is kind of a difference sense. I never thought of it that way before, but that's kind of right. I know God in a way that is different from the way I know that 3 is the square root of 9 and other things.

It's a different kind of knowing. Mystics like Wm. Blake and others have been trying w/o much success for centuries to put it into words and it is notoriously ineffable. If they didn't succeed, I know I couldn't.

Answer 8

People are not only physical beings, but also spiritual and spiritual things are spiritually discerned. I believe almost universal is the experience that when we have done something good, there is a spiritual confirmation that what we have done is right and when we have not we know it is wrong. We can drown out these feelings though. Yes it can be tested and only you can do it.

Answer 9

The "new means of perception" is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that comes upon a person when they become a believer, and who teaches us:

John:25 (NIV)"All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

I acquired this knowledge from personal experience and from studying scripture.

Answer 10

Its called Faith I believe! I do not believe that one has to be tested in that respect and one simply has to be a part of that which one choose's to believe.