Do you find it funny that the top answerer in Society&Culture, imacatholic2, has a pagan symbol for his icon?

Question

The cross with a circle is not a Catholic symbol - it is a pagan symbol denoting the zodiac. Do you think imacatholic2 has any idea where he's plagiarizing from?

Answer 1

Much of Judea-Christian symbolism is borrowed from astrology. Astrology, now condemned by those faiths, was instrumental in everything including using the stars to find Jesus at the time of his birth.

Ancient people depended on the stars for navigation, they also believed the stars foretold coming events. This is not a knock, just how it was.

Pantheist

Answer 2

I know exactly what my avatar represents for me and millions of other Catholics. If it means something else to a few neo-pagans then that is okay with me.

No one really knows how the Celtic cross got its circle. There are many legends, like:

+ In Ireland, it is a popular myth that Saint Patrick introduced the Celtic cross to the island during his time converting the pagan Irish. Some believe that he combined the symbol of Christianity, a cross, with the symbol of the sun, to give pagan followers an idea of the importance of the cross by linking it with the idea of a pagan sun god.

+ There is another legend of how St. Patrick, when preaching to some soon-to-be converted heathens, was shown a sacred standing stone that was marked with a circle that was symbolic of the moon goddess. Patrick made the mark of a Latin cross through the circle and blessed the stone making the first Celtic cross.

+ An Irish Catholic priest will have no hesitation telling you that the circle of the Celtic cross is a symbol of eternity that emphasizes the endlessness of God’s love as shown through Christ’s sacrifice on the cross.

+ That is unless he says the circle is a halo.

+ He may go on to explain that the crucifixion is important not just as an event at a certain point in time but as the circle symbolizes, as the unending mystery of how through the crucifixion and resurrection Christ continues to offer the hope of salvation to the faithful throughout all time.

However the Celtic cross came about, since about 450 C.E., it has been a symbol of Christianity (and not the sun god or moon goddess) for millions of Irish and other Catholics including me.

Many cultures use the same symbols for different reasons. The swastika was a symbol of good luck in India for thousands for years. Rudyard Kipling put them on all his books published before 1920. The Nazis adopted the swastika as their symbol in about 1920 and ever since, it has meant something else entirely.

With love in Christ.

Answer 3

It also represents the Celtic/Irish Crosses which the Catholics use in Ireland. See? Another pagan symbol taken by the early Christians in order to covert more pagans to their side!

Answer 4

and how many Christian ceremonies and holidays are actually 'Christian' and not some ancient pagan rituals... NONE... nothing now considered Christian was not here before Christ, all the symbolism and ceremonies were already well established in various parts of the world when Jesus walked the earth; later they were 'converted' and incorporated into Christianity as we know it. So don't worry too much about pagan symbols here...

Answer 5

What does it matter. The catholic religion itself is a pagan religion. The religion is overflowing with paganism.

At one time, catholocism was once illegal to be practiced in the United States. Along with it's pagan holiday, Christmas.

The reason being is because of it's pagan practices.

In the 1600's, many believed the catholic church was of the devil and the pope was the antichrist. And why would they believe such things. All one has to do is examine the history of this religion to discover it is not of God.

This religion has murdered many in the name of religion.

Jesus said to love our enemies.

So either Jesus is wrong or the catholic religion is wrong. I will side with Jesus always.

Answer 6

Yes. Though I don't know why imacatholic2 is even up there. No one has seen this person answer a single question in months.

Answer 7

the cross with the circle was the characteristic icon of the celtic church, which was a catholic church.

when the celtic church was incorporated into the roman catholic church (sometime after the fourth lateran council of 1215) the cross with a rising sun behind it became a roman catholic symbol also.

the celtic cross has no zodiacal overtones (hint: when the sun rises you can no longer see the zodiac).

Answer 8

I find it more funny that this person has been at the top for so long, yet I've NEVER seen a post from him/her.

And believe me, I'm an addict here. I've posted at all hours of the night. I can never remember seeing imacatholic2.

Answer 9

Is the Celtic Cross a Pagan Symbol?

Many claim it is, especially Neo-Pagans, who now use it freely for their own purposes. Some Christians, especially fundamentalists, are terribly afraid that they might be right and want nothing to do with it if it is tainted by Pagan associations. But the vast majority who use the Celtic Cross are Christian and unconcerned that there is any controversy.

All the historical examples of actual "Celtic Crosses" are from indisputably Christian contexts. The Aberlemno Stone in Angus, the great High Crosses at Clonmacnoise, Monasterboise, Kells, Iona and many other medieval monastic sites are all clearly made in Christian times, under Christian patronage and according to conventional Christian iconography. So where does this claim of paganism come from?

Henry O'Neill, in his 1857 book Illustrations of the Most Interesting of the Sculptured Crosses of Ancient Ireland writes, "I think that ancient Irish art was pagan, and was continued during the Christian period, just as the peculiar form of the Irish cross is pagan, or as the names of the months, or of the days of the week are pagan; these, and a great deal more of paganism, having continued, owing to the tenacity with which a people retain their general habits and ideas."


O'Neill was not himself pagan, as much of his writing contains a Christian piety that would refute such a suggestion. Rather he is expressing pride in a noble antiquity for Irish art. During the 19th century Celtic Revival, much was said and written about native cultural survivals from pre-Christian times. "Pre-Christian" would also be pre-Norman and pre-English domination. It must be remembered that at this time Ireland was reinventing itself. The trauma of famine and foreign rule was fresh. Many ancient Gaelic myths and legends were revived to serve the cause of a renewed sense of national identity and pride in the past.

A renewed interest in Celtic Christianity was part of this movement as well. The Celtic Church refers to the Church as it was in Ireland and Great Britain in the early medieval times, when it was considered isolated from Rome and developed a distinctly Celtic spirituality. People are not of one mind about this, as they rarely are about religious matters. But one thing that came out of this was the belief by some that the pagan Druidic religion of the Celts had clairvoyantly anticipated the Gospels. Legends were retold and refashioned in the light of emerging ideas and theories from archeology and anthropology. The similarity of the Celtic Cross to ancient symbols such as various Sun symbols and the swastika rather firmly established the notion that these pre-Christian signs were prototypes of the Christian Celtic Cross. The mystics of the movement added this archeological interpretation to their conviction that God had blessed the Druids with prophetic knowledge of the coming of Christ.

Some observers see any quartering of a circle as a Celtic Cross. The chambers of the Neolithic tomb at Newgrange or the arrangement of standing stones. Examples like these, though they be easily dismissed as coincidence, are "proof" to some that the Celtic Cross is of greater antiquity than Christianity and obviously originally pagan. Setting aside the question of validity of that belief, let us see what "spin" has been put on that belief in modern times. To the Celtic Christian of the early 20th century, the pagan roots of the Celtic Cross were a source of joy and wonder. It is evidence of the enlightenment and spiritual sensitivity of their pagan ancestors and of God's grace towards them. Today you are more likely to hear the story told that the (bad) Christians stole the symbol from its rightful pagan heritage and that this appropriation was done with the sinister motives of tricking the convert by changing the meaning of familiar symbols so that his conversion might require less coercion.

Ironically, the Pagan Roots of the Celtic Cross is essentially a Christian legend in its development. It is only in the last quarter of the 20th century that the "Christians stole it" spin of the story has become widespread, promoted mainly by those who make no secret of their distrust of Christianity. But there is more irony yet. The negative version of the story is also spread by some Christians, who unaware of the Celtic Revival version, believe the Neo-Pagan version of the story as true and feel compelled to spread the alarm, lest their fellow Christians unwittingly offend God by use of a pagan symbol.

So my message is "lighten up!" If you are Christian or Pagan I hope this little essay helps answer some questions. Attempts to deny or taint the Christian heritage of the Celtic Cross are misguided, but it is also a mistake to insist that any faith has an exclusive claim on this powerful symbol. And remember to keep things in perspective. The substance of religion is faith and love, not symbols.

Stephen Walker
6 October 2002

Answer 10

Actually you're wrong. You can find that form of the cross all over Ireland on churches, and for many centuries.