Pagans and heathens why is this so?

Question

I hope some do not find me too pedantic, at least I admit to being a tad pedantic at times, but I wish to raise another issue of grammar.

I ask why people capitalise the "p" in pagan and the "h" in heathen. They are not proper nouns so ought not to be capitalised unless at the beginning of a sentence, I wonder do people know this and still choose to do or are some unaware of this? Some incorrectly think that paganism and/or heathenry (or sometimes heathenism) are religions so may explain why they do so. However they are common/abstract nouns so grammatically speaking should not have the first letter capitalised. Although I class myself as more a heathen than a pagan I see no reason to capitalise the first letters, I only do so for the name of my religion, as people do for Wicca as it is a proper noun.

Why do you think people do this?

Julien I understand your point regarding paganism however do not agree that is religion at all, to me it is like saying one is theist it merely denotes belief but is too broad and can encompass many things.

blueink; there are many different types of nouns and only proper nouns should be capitalised unconditionally. It is not my judgement merely the definition of the words heathen and pagan.

Julien; I am confused why does "neo" make it a proper noun? I would not consider myself to be so as I thought that it referred to those following newer or modern forms of older religions/spiritualities.

Keltasia; I show respect so resent your comment. Christianity is a proper noun, pagan and heathen are not. Methodist or Catholics are premodifying proper nouns as the common noun would be theist or monotheist which obviously aren't capitalised. I am a pagan/heathen and follow a religion, if paganism or heathenry are religions would that not mean that I follow a religion within a religion? That to me makes no sense. The two have always been used to describe religious belief or lack thereof. I go by the definitions and by the fact the most people think this.

blueink; it depends on the name. For example, anger is the name of an emotion however emotions are abstract nouns. My name (Abby) is a proper noun, as the common noun would be human or person one could argue that pagan or heathen are just common nouns, whereas Wiccan or Druid etc. are the proper nouns.

Just to be clear, the definition I gave of heathen is based is what I have in my dictionary so it is NOT my "personal meaning" unless some people are trying to claim that I somehow managed to get my "personal meaning" into the dictionary. Collins dictionary, whic is what I have says a heathen is one who follows a religion that is not established, however with all words there can be more than one meaning.

Also, my name is Abby Hansen, for those of you who are aware of Scandinavian words, Hansen is of Scandinavian decent. My family I speak of live in Denmark, they worship Norse Gods but do not label themselves as heathen, they say they are Norse.

Under no circumstances did I tell heathens what they are and what they are not, people are being defensive and jumping on particular words I used. I neither presumed nor was arrogant. When I posted the comment to Daughter I merely was saying that I was unaware that some people had a different definition.

It was stated that in "the pagan community" there was a pagan definition. One cannot speak for all pagans or heathens for that matter. It is clear now that people have varying ideas of definitions I was merely going on what it says in the dictionary.

Thrudheim, I deleted the previous question because a small minority were using it as an opportunity to be rude and insulting which was detracting from the purpose of the question, others overreacted and became unnecessarily defensive. I was not "challenged" to substantiate anything, the dictionary is substanatiation enough however people are individuals and will find ways to be rude and condescending and it was naive of me to think that pagans/heathens would be any different. Of course not all are like that but I have noticed enough for it to alter my views of my fellow pagans and heathens.

Also, I raised a grammatical point, if you did not like that, you were not obliged to answer.

Thrudheim; you do not dictate who is or who is not a heathen.

Lastly, this has shown to me that although paganism and heathenry cover many religions and spiritualities some which venerate nature etc. we are all individuals. I like to think that I follow my religion to the best of my ability, I try hard to respect others even if I disagree with them or they are rude to me. As we all get back what we give out. This experience has just shown me that instead of being constructive, some people can be rude and insulting even swearing and this only further demonstrates their inarticulate nature, as instead of expressing themselves properly they are only able to be rude and take shots at people like "get out more" and other foolishness. However, I am not in the business of giving such people the satisfaction of reverting to their irrelevent inarticulateness.

The Gods are great and see each of us for what we truly are.

Answer 1

The P in Paganism can be capitalized if the person refers to it directly as their religion. Some people consider themselves Pagans, and nothing more, which makes using the proper noun capitalization more respectful. I am one-hundred-percent with you on the heathen aspect of your critique, though, as nobody would seriously check "heathen" in a form asking for religious preference.
I am pedantic too, though, so don't feel that alone.

Edit:
In retrospect you're right. I would consider any modern pagan who considers themselves a pagan to be a Neopagan, which should indeed be capitalized, now that I think about it a little.
However, just because I believe you're right, doesn't mean that most people will. I've been reading academic research since I answered this question and have found that in most cases "Paganism" is capitalized.

Answer 2

if referring to the community you use a small p. If you are refering to the relgious aspect you use a capital P. Many Pagans consider themsevles JUST Pagans, no path or tradition.
As stated in a earlier post that you deleted Heathen CAPITAL P is a PATH. It is a TRADITION. It is ASATRU. If you have family who practice as you claim then you should know this.
As was told to you earlier, if you try to tell a Heathen that they aren't one, you will and do have a fight on your hands. We are very proud of who and what we are. It is presumptous and arrogant to tell people what they do and don't believe. Just because you have your own little definition of Heathen doesn't mean other people have the same vision.
Get out more. Don't ask questions and then correct the answer.
Hail the Gods

Answer 3

The same reasons people capitalize Christianity. To them Paganism or Heathenism is the name(noun) of their 'religion'.

You may judge this to be incorrect but in truth people can name their religion anything they want. And proper nouns are capitalized.

Answer 4

Pagan and Heathen may be considered by many people as not the name of a religion. However, then Christian shouldn't be capitalized because it is the "umbrella" term used to describe Methodists, Catholics, etc. It is a matter of respect. If you want your religion to be respected you need to be willing to show respect to others.

Answer 5

One thing that I've never understood in this section is people's undying affinity for being grammatically correct.

For some people, paganism *is* their religion. While some practice Celtic Reconstructionism or Asatru, others are eclectic and do not follow a certain pantheon or a certain specific doctrine. In those cases, I think its perfectly acceptable for a person to refer to themselves as a Pagan -- as "eclectic" is just an adjective and isn't a religion, either.

Answer 6

Most are just stressing the noun. To make the word more important in the sentence.

Answer 7

I think it is a habit from capitalizing religious denominations.
Error!

Answer 8

Do people still use the word 'heathen'?

Answer 9

Who cares? I dont capitize god.

Answer 10

Ego.