predestination or free will?

Question

I want scriptural evidence to back up what you say.

Answer 1

Predestination. The Scriptures are overwhelmingly clear. I provide here only a small sample of the total textual evidence:

Matthew 11:25-27: At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Matthew 16:15-17: He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 22:14: For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matthew 25:34: Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

John 1:12-13: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:27: John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

John 5:21: For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

John 6:35-40: And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44-48: No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life.

John 10:1-5: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

John 10:27-30: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.

John 15:16: Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 17:9: I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Act 4:26-28: The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Act 13:47-48: For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Act 17:24-27: God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Romans 8:28-31: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Romans 9:8-13: That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

1Corinthians 2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Ephesians 1:3-6: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Ephesians 1:11-12: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-10: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Philippians 1:28-29: And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Philippians 2:12-13: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

2Timothy 1:8: Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

James 1:18: Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1Peter 1:1-2: Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1Peter 2:9-10: But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.



Notes: Passages cited where humans are making choices are irrelevant to the proof of Free Will as it is commonly defined. In any given “choice” passage, the chooser is doing what they want to do, but they are still acting within the overarching plan of God. By contrast, most people on the Free Will side of this debate want Free Will to mean that any lost sinner might get a clue they might like to become a Christian, and from that point might or might not become one, regardless of what God does. That is, their will can act independently of either the will of God, or their sinful nature, or both. There is no Scripture supporting this proposition. Again, the “choice” passages are mere descriptions of what people did or ought to do. None of them define whether the choice was based on a spiritual ability to act independently from the will of God, or to rise above their sinful inclinations to do good or make a righteous choice apart from the intervention of God.

The “choice” passages therefore add no insight to the problem. Even those who believe in (Christian) predestination accept the validity of moral choices as products of a person's own moral nature, and will always advise choosing good over evil. The core of the problem is ability. Does a lost sinner have any such ability? The above passages, and others not listed, seem to indicate they do not. The faith we have is itself a gift of God. No sinner still dead in his or her sins (Ephesians 2:1) can act like a living spirit and choose life. Does the Scripture say anywhere that He chose us because He looked down the tunnel of time and saw we would choose Him? No, it says we love Him because He first loved us. 1 John 4:19. That is, His love for us CAUSED our love for Him. He did know us in advance, that we were vile sinners who would never repent on our own. Yet He loved us, and gave Himself for us, so that we could know Him, and know the riches of His grace which He had planned for us before time began.

It is true that “foreknowledge” is mentioned in a few passages, but in Hebrew semantics this word has little or nothing to do with time traveler predictions of our future spiritual choice between belief and unbelief, which would have been alien to the Jewish mind of that day. God knew the future because He was already there. He didn’t have to look ahead and condition His actions on our supposedly free wills. No, to the Jewish mind of that time, if God knews or foreknew someone, that signified setting affection on someone. Basically, it meant love: “The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.” Jeremiah 31:3. Likewise, when Jesus addresses the wicked on the day of judgment, will He tell them He never “knew” them in the sense of not knowing in advance what they would do? Of course not. He knows all the deeds of both the righteous and the wicked. No, here, to “know” means to “recognize” as the object of His eternal affection, and to “not know” means to reject.

As for Romans 9, contrary to what has been said elsewhere, that passage does indeed speak of election unto personal salvation. Here’s how it works. Paul has confronted a difficult problem. If Jesus was the true Messiah, why didn’t all Jews accept him as such? That is, why were they not all saved? That’s the question he answers by discussing election, God’s choice of those to whom He is merciful and those He hardens. He is describing the distinction between the children of the flesh, national Israel, and the children of the promise, defined here as those who accepted Jesus as Messiah, those who are saved. Without this framework, the passage is a senseless interruption in an otherwise flowing theological discourse. Within this framework, there is no choice but to see that God’s purposes in election are directly relevant to personal salvation, those who accept Jesus as Messiah.

Therefore, since Scripture does not teach that fallen soul is free to act contrary to their fallen nature, which always inclines toward sin, there is no freedom to choose God or follow Jesus until and unless God first breathes life into the dead sinner. There must be a resurrection before there can be life. Without God actively choosing those to whom this life would be granted, there would be no “remnant according to the election of grace.” Romans 11:5. If salvation depended on our not-so-free will, heaven would be empty. Thank God He has saved us from the slavery of our sinful nature, and has set us free through the Holy Spirit to confess Jesus as Lord. 1 Corinthians 12:3.

Answer 2

Romans 8: 29-32, Galatians 5:22-23 and Matthew 16:26..we are predestined to be like God But we have the Freedom to choose which way we go. God Knows How people will choose and does Not interfere with those choices. Genesis 13:10-13, 2 Peter 2:7-8, Genesis 19:15,30, Proverbs 12:15,Proverbs 1:7, Isaiah 14:12-20, Exodus 20, Deuteronomy 28 are choices to either Serve and obey God or not.

Answer 3

These two topics have been the cause of much debate over the years. The word of God unveils that as believers we have been pedestinated and it also indicates that we have free will to choose.

Romans 8:29-30
Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the Image of His Son that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers"

" And those whom He predestinated, these He also called, and those whom He called , these He also justified, and those whom He justified, these He also Glorified"

In these verses, all the steps of God's work are described in the past tense. This indicates thay in His eyes all the work has been completed. Because God is a God of eternity there is no element of time with Him

God has predestinated us not simply that we may be sanctified, spiritual and victorious but that we may be fully conformed to the image of His Son. This is our destiny, determined by God in eternity past.


There are three " WILLS" in this universe.
There was first only the Perfect Will of God since eternity past.

Then in the book of Isaiah we see Satan's Will coming into being
The purpose of Satan's rebellion was to exalt himself to be equal with God. In Isaiah 14:13-14 we find that five times Satan said "I will," at the time of his rebellion. "I will ascend..I will exalt my throne..I will sit also upon the mount..I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." Satan wanted to be equal with God. That was the purpose of his rebellion against God.

When God created man after the rebellion of satan, God could have opted to create man to choose His Will.. rather He created man with a spirit, soul and body. In Man's soul is the ability to Choose. There is the Mind Emotions and Will in man's soul.
God put man before the tree of life and also made the tree of the Knowledge know to him. We know that the sublle serpent cunningly deceived the woman and the downfall of man came about. Now man's will has been enslaved by satan's will.

SO you ask.. is it free will or predestination.
I say its both. We have been predestinated. It is God's heart desire that NONE perish, yet we realize that man still has the ability. since the very beginning to choose this day whom he will serve.
I do not know what is the reason God chose the way He did.. That is in His widsom and foreknowledge, but I do believe that He sees things from the perspective of Eternity. He knows Who will choose to deny Him or Follow Him. Each one of us has to make that decision at some point in time. There is no neutral person. There are only three ' Wills " in this universe. God's. Satan's and Man's
Man decides between the two. He is not a free agent. If man's will is not for God it is then satan's by default.

Good Question
sandy

Answer 4

the LORD sees the END to the beginning.
that means He knows the choices you MADE before you make them... that's why scripture is totally accurate.

explanation of rom 8:28-30 ...
the true church is predestined to be raptured, to live eternally w/ the LORD ...
b/c He foreknew He would rapture the church.
but individuals were not predestined by Him from the beginning to be in the church.
they had free will to choose Godly salvation or not.

the LORD sees the end from the beginning & knows who choose to be born again (according to acts 2:38 & john 3), & would live for Him.
these He knew would be His church.
these He knew would rapture & live w/ Him for eternity.
He knew they CHOSE righteously .... not that He made them choose that way.

Answer 5

You can't be disobedient without free will:
Rom 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

If I am predestined, there is no 'if' to it:

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Answer 6

The Bible says such things as "Choose ye this day whom you will serve, but as for me and my househould, we will serve the Lord" (Joshua said that in the Old Testament).

In the New Testament, Jesus said, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life."

I'm not sure where it is stated, but the Bible also says the following: "God does NOT take pleasure in the death of the wicked" and "God does not want ANY to perish, but that ALL should come to repentance."

There is only ONE Scripture that talks about predestination, and that refers to Pharoah, who "was raised up to demonstrate the power of God", but that was a very specific situation.

The other Scripture that is sometimes used asks us "Who are you, O man, to question God? Does the pot say to the one who made it, what have you made?." It continues with "God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy, and on whom he wills, he hardens." In context, it has nothing to do with God choosing some for heaven and some for hell. It's about God having mercy when we don't think they deserve it.

Answer 7

No where in the Bible does it say "Though shalt have the free will to chose heaven or hell."
But it never says that people are predestinded to hell or heaven.
It doesn't need to say either but anyone with half a brain can gather that it your choice.

Answer 8

Those are not mutual exclusive. For example it is written, "who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father" 1Peter 1:2 So If God foreknows the choices we will make he could simply incorporate that into his plan beforehand while not violating our free will.

Answer 9

1Timothy 2:3 That is good. It pleases God our Savior. 4 He wants everyone to be saved. He wants them to come to know the truth.

Ezekiel 18:23 “When sinful people die, it does not give me any joy,” announces the LORD and King. “But when they turn away from their sins and live, that makes me very happy.

...God would not create a situation where WHAT HE WANTS is impossible. Clearly, he leaves the choice to us.

Answer 10

I've been predestined to say free will.

Answer 11

Free-will.