Pascal's Wager flawed?

Question

That whole thing that says "Just say you believe in God even if you don't because if there is a God, you're be ok, and if there isn't you would not have lost anything."

Theists say that the non-believers/non-Christians should think this way....but do they not see the flaw in this? Even if a non-believer went to church, did their sacriments (in terms of Catholocism) or whatever......If God is as almighty as He is proclaimed to be, do you not think He would be smart enough to figure it out that they would only paying lip service?

I dunno, that's just my thought on the topic.

^_^ Cheers!

Don't mistake me, I'm not a Christian. I'm an Agnostic.

I posted this because out of nowhere my mom (Catholic) asked me if I would want to have a first communion the other day. When I told her no, she said "Well that's ok..you're life...but what if you're wrong?"

Answer 1

Its even further flawed when you ask which God should you bet on. There are so many religions. What if you pick the wrong one?

Answer 2

Let me begin by making it clear that Pascal's wager is not really about believing in God, it's about accepting religion. It might be an old religion with lots of cathedrals and a globe-spanning ministry, or a tiny little cult that meets in someone's front room. At the very least it will be a definition of God that you must accept, along with the infrastructure needed to propagate that definition. Don't believe me? Next time some Mighty Zombie asks if you believe in God tell them this: "Sure: I believe God is sex, and I definitely believe in sex." If they're cute and you're available, wink. Choices Suppose I decided that Pascal is right, that I should "get religion" just in case. Which one should I choose? On a worldwide basis, roughly equal numbers of people are Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, and Hindu, each having roughly one billion adherents. Another billion have some religion other than one of the big four. The remaining billion or so have no religion. None of the religions call to me. I have no basis for choosing one over the other. When I knelt and prayed for guidance God told me he didn't exist. All-Powerful = All-Stupid? If God does exist, presumably He'll know I don't really believe in Him, that I'm pretending to believe in him on the off chance that He might really exist. If He's willing to accept me if I just "Go through the motions" then I suspect just being a good person will also be enough. Pascal's own answer to this point was that this is why we have churches, to help us grow in faith. In other words, if I submit to a church-approved brainwashing program, they can make me believe. I do not find this comforting. Hidden Costs The cost to "place the bet" is not as low as some would claim. Tithes and other contributions are just the beginning. People are dying, now, as I type, because of their religion, or because of somebody else's religion. There are people refusing medical treatment because it's "against their religion". There are people killing other people over religion. The "ethnic cleansing" in Eastern Europe was very much a religious war between Christians and Muslims. Similar conflicts are taking place in Indonesia. And let's not forget 9/11. If You Bet, Bet Responsibly Let's suppose someone offers you the following wager: Roll a single die. If it comes up a six, they will give you ten thousand dollars. If it comes up 1 through 5, you give them one thousand dollars. Should you take the bet? The odds of winning are 1:6 and the payoff is 10:1. If you've got a thousand bucks to spare, it's a good bet. But if that money is supposed to go towards rent and utilities, then it would be irresponsible of you to make the bet. If we atheists are right, this is the only life you have. Using it to place a risky bet is irresponsible. [EDIT] Yes, there are several cut and paste answers here. We've already DONE the research and know where the information is.

Answer 3

What if the god that really exists sends all good people to heaven and all bad people to hell except people who pretended to know for a fact another god existed? then all good atheists are going to heaven but CHRISTIANS ARE GOING STRAIGHT TO HELL. Why not repent when you still have time? Why risk eternity in hell?

And how can you worship a sadistic god that tortures good people - most of the people who ever lived - for all eternity?

Pascal's wager:

"If god exists, it's infinitely better to believe, since you get heaven instead of hell for eternity. If he doesn't, it doesn't matter since you're dead anyway. So overall it's better to believe"

This is, of course, false.

Some of the problems with the argument:

* The implied assumption that god may exist (with a 50% probability, no less!)

* The assumption that there is an afterlife with a heaven and hell

* The assumption that the god cares about belief in him/her above all else

* The assumption that if you believe in a god, it will definitely be the same god that actually exists.

* The assumption that you lose nothing if it's false. You have lost a great deal, from time praying to a nonexistent entity (some people pray several hours a day!!!) to morality (your god may ask you to hurt other people) and much more besides.

* The assumption that people can believe in something simply because it benefits them. Would you believe goblins exist for twenty bucks? Why not?

* The assumption that any god won't see through the "believing just to get into heaven" ploy.

For more:
http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/wager.html
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/wager.html

Answer 4

Yes, it is flawed. Believing is not something you can decide to do as a matter of policy. At least, it is not something I can decide to do as an act of will. I can decide to go to church and I can decide to recite the Nicene Creed, and I can decide to swear on a stack of biblesthat I believe every word inside them. But none of that can make me actually believe it if I don't. Pascal's wager could only ever be an argument for for feigning belief in God. And the God that you claim to believe in had better not be of the onmniscient kind or he'd see through the deception.

Answer 5

Listen folks.....let me know if you can dispute this:

1. Many more individuals are born than can possibly survive, thus there is competition for limited resources

2. Within this vast number there is variation, and because of this variation some of these individuals will have an advantage--however slight--over others

3. The ones who have the advantages are more competitive and thus they are more likely to obtain the limited resources

4. The ones who are succeeding in securing the limited resources are more likely to reproduce and thus pass onto their offspring the more competitive traits

Darwin


Deal with reality

Answer 6

The way the wager is placed is this:

If antheist just goes ahead and believes and turns out there is a god, then great you win. And if there isn't a God then you have nothting to lose.

But the flaw is that you DO have something to lose. For me to force myself to believe in a God I would have to give up my rational foundation of thinking. I'd have to start accepting things that are told to me without questioning them. I'd have to give up being a skeptic.

That is dangerous!

Answer 7

Oh, Meg - here we go again. What gave you the idea that God is a he? THE spirit lies inside of all of us. WE, together, are almighty. When we pray or cast a spell or light a candle, it is a communication of spirits. We have all the answers right here - you just have to look. The place to start is inside. I don't mean this to be insulting, but have you ever heard of the KISS principle? It really is that simple.

Answer 8

I know what you mean.
I doubt 'god' would allow a buncha fakes into his his heaven.
Along with that goes the fact that I'm too old to fake it anymore in any case and what's with this 'choose to believe' thingy that fundies go on about.
How can you believe in something that's just too silly for words.
That's like asking me to 'choose to believe' it's 7.52 at nite instead of 7.52 on a beautiful, and it's gonna be a great day, morning.

Answer 9

Lets say Christians hope we don't see the flaw, But of course we do.

Answer 10

Yeah, God would figure it out, they don't call him almighty for nothing. But what if God counts trying to believe, and takes the guy to heaven anyways? God works in mysterious ways.

Also, the non-believer actually might start to believe, then it would have worked.