Catholics: Assumption of Mary?

Question

I know the Catholics hold the assumption of to be dogma. That is must be accepted. My question is this. Why is the assumption of Mary considered to be true when two early popes condemned it as heresy? Also if this happened why is it not recorded in the book of John? It is estimated this gospel was written in 90 AD. Surely Mary was dead by this point. Wouldn't it have been mentioned? Every other assumption in the Bible is clearly mentioned

About the assumption: In 495 A.D., Pope Gelasius issued a decree which rejected this teaching as heresy and its proponents as heretics. In the sixth century, Pope Hormisdas also condemned as heretics those authors who taught the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary. The early Church clearly considered the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary to be a heresy worthy of condemnation. Here we have "infallible" popes declaring something to be a heresy. Then in 1950, Pope Pius XII, another "infallible" pope, declared it to be official Roman Catholic doctrine

Cruz C - I understand the difference between them speaking ex cathedra and just regular teaching. That does not change a thing. If the Pope, the successor of Peter, declared this to be heresy. Then shouldn't it be considered heresy? Did you know the assumption was not considered dogma until 1950?

Quailman - Pope Gelasius in the late 5th century declared several books to be heretical. Included in this list is the Transitus which teaches the assumption of Mary. For the whole document you can look for Decretum de Libris Canonicis Ecclesiasticis et Apocryphis.

Father K - that has to be the worst logic I have ever seen you use. I am disappointed. You did not address the question at all. If a Pope declares the assumption to be heresy then how can another Pope declare it is dogma? This is strange to say the least and casts doubts on tradition as a source of dogma at the worst.

Ten Commandments - I quit reading it after it referred to Elijah and Enoch as lesser than Mary. Read the book of Luke where the Angel speaks to Mary it says she is blessed among women. Not above women, not above men. But among women. She was never meant to be worshiped. She holds no higher position in Heaven than any other Christian. God is not a respecter of persons. Mary is just another human just like me and you. She sinned, she ate, she had children (note the plural), she eventually died, and she rotted in her grave. This is not meant in disrespect. It is just the truth.

Quailman - interesting how documents written in the past supporting catholic dogma are accepted without question. But when something suddenly goes against dogma it is false.

Quailman - ok lets ignore him for a moment. What about Pope Hormisdas. He upheld waht was taught by Gelasius. Whether or not it was really written by Gelasius, here is another Pope saying it was heresy.

Quailman - Elizabeth said that to Mary? Then why does the following verse say the angel said it?

Luke 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Quailman - you say the gospel of Peter is on the list. You are correct. The two letters from Peter are in the list considered canon.

Answer 1

I've always thought that word 'assumption' was rather appropriate. Somebody ASSUMED that it was so, but there isn't really any record of it happening. Go figure.

Answer 2

number 1, gospels are about Jesus, not Mary(which would explain why the protoevalgelum wasn't included-because it started with the birth of Mary)

number 2, unless a Pope is speaking infallibly(ex cathedra, on a matter of faith and morals, acknowledging infallibliity) then it's not considered infallible.

If the pope said "Yankees will win the world series", it doesn't count as infallible.

as for the quotes, i'd like to see them, i'll edit this if i can find them.


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ag_AkXNppQiTR5S94TOwbUXsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20071005144852AAJLQ9v


edit-

the only thing i can find similar to what you said(about Gelasius) is the "Decretum Gelasianum", which lists rejected cannon, one of which was called "the book of the Assumption of Mary", which doesn't mean much, since it doesn't tell why the book was excluded(for all we know it could've said Mary told spock to beam her up).
the point is moot because they're not even sure if Gelasius wrote "Decretum Gelasianum"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decretum_Gelasianum

edit2-

Gabriel said Mary was "full of grace", Elizabeth said she was "Blessed among women".

i'm not having too much luck finding Hormisdas


edit 3-

What are you talking about? a list of books, which only gives the names of the books, doesn't mean anything. And if they don't know if he was the author, then what more do you want?
also on that list is the gospel of Peter, using the "if the titles there it must be heresy" argument you present, Peter must not have seen Jesus

Answer 3

One exciting helping observe. in the fifteenth century, the Portuguese arrived in India to Christianize it. Upon arrival they have been bowled over to locate Christians already there making a music the Mass. that they were there already for 15 centuries. It seems that throughout the time of accordance to the Indian Church, Thomas the apostle had a imaginitive and prescient of Mary, following her Assumption, and she or he sent him East so some distance as he would desire to bypass. They preseved the doctrine of the thought for over one thousand years in isolation from something of Christianity. it incredibly is their founding tale. in addition they'd desire to not have common of the communicate that grew to become into forming with Protestants while you evaluate that they had in no way heard of them. So, even however this community did not comprehend it, they have been retaining self sufficient info of the belief as that they had no reason to be partisan in the problem. there is likewise a reasonably solid huge-unfold press e book by skill of a former evangelical scripture theologian, Scott Hahn, talked approximately as "Hail Holy Queen." it incredibly is a reasonably solid e book and as a scripture theologian experienced in the evangelical community, it incredibly is greater effective than maximum because of the fact it comes from the view of the different camp.

Answer 4

That is why we need to read the Bible for ourselves. No one on earth is "infallible". The Bible also does not say to pray to Mary. St Dominic in 13th century or so started that. The Bible does say there is one mediator between God and man and that is Christ Jesus. 1Tim 2:5-6

So as you have shown don't just follow blindly...clearly you have done the research. That is the way to the truth.

Answer 5

I don't think you understand the difference between popes speaking "ex cathedra" and giving their personal opinions. See Catholic Encyclopedia online for explanation of infallibilty.

Answer 6

To best guard yourself against falsehood and false teachers - know the truth. To spot a counterfeit, study the real thing. Any believer who is, “rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15), and who makes a careful study of the Bible, can identify false doctrine.

Answer 7

Simple answer: The Blessed Virgin died in Ephesus, according to most scholars. In the very heart of "the East".

The Eastern Orthodox are forever noted for their fastidious keeping of relics. What greater relics could there be but the relics of Blessed Mary, the Ever-Virgin Theotokos?

And yet...there are none to be found.

So...where are they but in heaven?

Answer 8

So you see by your own research you have proved that what is found in the Bible was decided upon by man. Popes are not infallible, only if you believe they are, all humans are tempted and tried in little and big ways throughout their life, Popes were once little children too and teenagers and we all learn by trial and error and hopefully change our errors and don't repeat them.

What about Mary she gave birth to Jesus, what did Jesus say about his mother when he was told that she was waiting outside with the rest of the people waiting to hear His words? He answered who is my mother who is my brother my sister we are all mothers and sisters and brothers. Jesus was a humble man, not wanting praise for his works because he knew the power to perform them was granted to Him by the Father. In other words he didn't want us to make models or statues of anything and bow down to nothing except to pray to the Father. Jesus didn't want to make His mother above others in this message the Catholic religion did that.

Answer 9

It is very similar to Mormon doctrine. The current prophet, (Pope) can contradict earlier prophets and thereby is correcting major church doctrine. Thereby doctrine becomes flexible and ever changing.

Answer 10

This is an apocryphal doctrine.

But I do believe Mary's soul/spirit is in heaven with the Lord & everyone else who is redeemed by the blood of the Lamb who has died.