Who is the Catholic Church to decide what is Holy and what isn't?

Question

I'm talking about the formation of the bible in the year 500 AD.

Who gave the authority to men to decide what books should be included, and excluded, from The Holy Bible....wouldn't that make the books that were not included Unholy?

They testify of the life of Jesus...so if they said those books are unholy(or evil in some sense) wouldn't that be almost the same thing as saying the life of Jesus, through these people's eyes, is evil....in some sense of the word?

If God wanted to determine which books were Holy and which were not...wouldn't He have had the disciples write them earlier...and then have Jesus aprove of them?

I dunno...to me it just seems unfair for some guy to say "oh yeah...I like the book of John it's good....ohhhhhhh the book of Thomas? Not so good...burn it."

agree or disagree?

Greg...I guess you're acting under divine guidance for insulting my intelligence? hmmm that's Christlike...isn't it?

Oh, sorry the thing I read said the beginning of the 5th century which would've been around 400 AD(my bad)

No, I haven't read the book of Thomas, but what sounds absurd(as someone else mentioned) Jesus biting a teacher...

Or Jesus being born of a virgin, a global flood, people ressurecting themselves from the dead, feeding thousands from a few fish and loaves of bread, a whale swallowing a man and spitting him up at another city, and of course a burning bush that wasn't burning...

OH NO!!! It's TOO absurd to think a child bit someone!!! WOW!!!!

Answer 1

1. What Tradition Means- Our Lord did not command His Apostles to write, but to teach, “Going therefore, teach ye all nations... to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you” (Matt. 28 19). The Apostles told their disciples orally what their Divine Master had communicated to them. “The things which thou had heard of me by many witnesses,” St. Paul writes to Timothy, “the same commend (i.e., tell) to faithful men, who shall be fit to teach to others also” (2 Tim. 2,2). Most of the truths which the Apostles preached at the command of Christ were afterwards written down by the Apostles themselves or by some of their disciples. But many important truths continued to be handed down by word of mouth. In fact, n the whole New Testament we cannot find any sign of a purpose to put on paper all that Christ revealed. St. John, the last of the Apostles to write, says expressly that he has recounted only a part of what Christ had done: “Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of His disciples, which are not written in this book” (20,30). And St. Paul writes to the Thessalonians: “brethren, hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle”( 2 Thess. 2, 14). It is these truths, precepts, and counsels, revealed by God, but not founding the Written Word of God, that we call tradition.

3. Necessity Of Tradition- The Bible nowhere tells us how many inspired books there are. If we did not know this for certain from Tradition, we should not even have a Bible. When Protestants appeal to Scripture against the Catholic Church, “they forget that it is from this very Church, and on her authority, that Scripture is received.” If we consulted the Bible only, we should still have to keep holy the Sabbath Day, that is Saturday, with the Jews, instead of Sunday; we should have to abstain from eating things strangled and from blood (acts 15,20); we should let little children die without baptism, because, according to mere words of the Bible text (Matt. 28, 19), Christ gave the command first to teach, and then to baptize, we sho0uld not know that nay many, or woman, or child that has attained the age of reason can validly baptize; we should not know the exact rite of validly administering each particular sacrament. The Bible does not, in doubtful passages, decide upon the true meaning of its words; this Tradition does for us. All sects appeal to the Bible to prove their contradictory doctrines, and each one of them pretend to have hit upon its true meaning. Thus we see that Tradition is necessary, and that the Christan must believe all that God has revealed and the Church proposes to his belief, whether it be contained in Holy Scripture or in Tradition.


Outside the Church there is no salvation

The Church is the Body of Christ (Eph. 1, 22-23), the realization of the kingdom of Christ on earth, the continuation of His work among men. As such she is the Church of Humanity. It is her purpose- a purpose essential to her very nature- to incorporate all men of all times and all places with the Body of Christ. In one word, it is the essence of the Church of Christ to be Catholic.

But if the Church of Christ is Catholic, world-wide, all embracing, she must be exclusive; that is, she must be the Church of humanity, the only Church in which there is salvation for all men.

Because the Church is conscious of being the King of God on earth, of being the Church of humanity, to which all men, according to the will of Christ, must belong if they wish to be saved, she cannot admit that men can be saved also if any other church. If she did so, she would be guilty of disloyalty to herself, of apostasy from her true nature. Either the Catholic Church is the church, the body of Christ, the Kingdom of God, or she is nothing at all- a mere sham and make- believe. “One God, one Christ, one Baptism, one Church.” Just as there can be no second Christ, so there can be no second Body of Christ, no second manifestation of the Spirit of Christ. The exclusiveness of the Church is rooted in the exclusiveness of Christ, in His claim to be the Bringer of the new Life, the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

The early teachers of Christ's doctrines always taught that salvation was to be found only in the one Church of Christ, and they based their teaching on the words of Christ Himself: “If he will not hear the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican,” i.e., as no longer a member of Christ's Body as outlawed from His society. St. Cyprian, the martyr-bishop of Carthage,is the author of the famous phrase which so aptly and succinctly expresses the Church's claim to be the only institution on earth in which salvation is found: “Extra ecclesiam nulla salus- outside the Church there is no salvation” (Ep. 73,21). The opening words of the Athanasian Creed are a paraphrase of these words of st. Cyprian: “ Whoever desires to be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith; which faith, except every one do keep entire and inviolate, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.” The same truth is expressed in the Lateran Creed and in the profession of faith published by the Council of Florence.

“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. Galatians 1:8”

Anyone outside the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church headed by Pope Michael 1st cannot be saved. If anyone thinks otherwise, let him be anathema.

http://www.vaticaninexile.com/

Answer 2

Let's take this one piece at a time, shall we?

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The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus, and it's earthly leaders are guided by the Holy Spirit. In a overly-simplified nutshell, that is where the Catholic Church derives it's Authority.

As for the Bible itself, the Bible Canon used today is the same that was used in 500 AD, which was also the exact same Bible Canon used in 200 AD.

The Catholic Bible Canon developed over the first two centuries of the Church's earthly existance, and has not changed since.


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The Church derives it's Authority in God, via the guidence of the Holy Spirit. This is how the Early Church Leaders discerned which books were truly Inspired and which ones were not.

Concerning books that were ultimately excluded from the Bible, this does not necessarily mean they are "unholy", as in "evil". It just means such books were not Divinely Inspired as the Bible books are.


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No. I could sit down and write a book about the life of Jesus - but that doesn't mean it was Divinely Inspired, nor does it mean the book is entitled to inclusion in the Bible simply because of it's subject matter.


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No. Jesus did not come to give His personal aproval of the Scriptures. Most, if not all, of the New Testament was penned AFTER the Resurrection. Has God given His personal approval of the current Catholic Biblical Canon? Yes, by virtue of the fact the Holy Spirit has guided the Church in assembling the Bible as we have it.


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The problem here is that you are assuming the Gospel of Thomas was Divinely Inspired. The fact that the Church has excluded it proves the Gospel of Thomas was not Divinely inspired.

The decision to include/exclude texts from the Bible was not left up to one man but an assembly of Catholic clergy - all of whom were guided by the Holy Spirit in bringing us the Bible Canon we have today.


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I whole-heartedly disagree with your hypothesis.


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You question the Catholic Church's Dogma as it pertains to Divine Guidence of the Holy Spirit. That is not Christ-like either.


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Still wrong. The Bible Canon we have today was in use by the early Church by the end of the first century.


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So, if you have not read the Thomas, why do you endorse it as a text worthy of inclusion in the Bible. It's this sort of recklessness the Church has managed to avoid for 2,000 years - by allowing itself to be guided by the Holy Spirit as opposed to mans' personal opinions.


< OH NO!!! It's TOO absurd to think a child bit someone!!! WOW!!!!>>

Now who's not behaving in a Christ-like manner? It seems your problem is not with the existing Bible Canon but WITH THE BIBLE ITSELF.

You're making the mistake of reading Biblical text at face value, and you shouldn't do that.

Answer 3

Hello & might Jah bless you and your Lil' loved ones without end! You can appear on your OM e-book. There's a few well recommendation in there. Your instructor will have to pass over those matters with you, but when no longer here is what you do...Pray earlier than you do and allow the spirit and your middle advisor you. Write the church a sensible letter pointing out the noticeable causes. You might or would possibly not incorporate a scripture or 2 it is as much as you.Stick a stamp on it and Wah-Lah. Now if the church now not exixts then Jehovah and the angels understand and it may not be held in opposition to you! Tell your husband "Philia" from a long run sister. And you pricey pal preserve up your 'nice works' You have already got a letter of reconmondation ! With Warm Christian Love, DG

Answer 4

I agree, but this is all part of God's plan. The bible has been changed so many times, and who are these authors anyway? I believe that some of the bible is God's word, I can easily tell which parts by reading it, and it's obvious some are nonsense written by some men.

I would only accept something that comes from God, that's why God sent us one last Holy Book, the Qur'an. The Qur'an has never been changed, not even a letter or an accent, and it's been over 1,400 years! When you read it, it's so obvious that it's from God Himself, unlike with the bible.

Answer 5

The Holy Spirit.

The Catholic Church does not use Holy Scripture as the only basis of doctrine. It could not. The early Catholic church existed before and during the time that the New Testament was written (by Catholics).

There were hundreds of Christian writings during the first and second centuries. Which New Testament writings would become official was not fully decided until about 400 C.E.

Catholics believe that the Holy Spirit was guiding the early church (and is guiding the church today) to make the correct choices about things like:
+ The Holy Trinity (which is also only hinted at in the Bible)
+ Going to church on Sunday instead of Saturday (which is actually directly against one of the Ten Commandments)
+ The Communion of Saints
+ Which writings include in the New Testament?

Things that are even more modern like
+ Slavery is bad. Slavery is never declared evil in the Bible. This was one of the justifications for slavery in the Confederate States.
+ Democracy is good. The Bible states that either God should be the leader of the nation like Israel before the kings or kings should be the leader, "Give to Caesar that which is Caesar's." This was talked about a lot during the American Revolution.

This second source of doctrine is called Apostolic Tradition.

Do Christians who do not allow the continuing guiding force of the Holy Spirit to make their beliefs more and more perfect, still endorse slavery as Colossians 3:22 commands, "Slaves, obey your human masters in everything"?

Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. (2 Thessalonians 2:15)

We instruct you, brothers, in the name of (our) Lord Jesus Christ,to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us. (2 Thessalonians 3:6)

I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you. (1 Corinthians 11:2)

For more information, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, sections 80 and following: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect1chpt2.htm#80

With love in Christ.

Answer 6

Who are you to decide the leadership Chriswt chose for His Church is inadequate?

Books that were not included in the Bible are not necessarily 'unholy'...they were considered UNISPIRED- which means they weren't written under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

God DID decide which books belonged in the Bible- by guiding the early Church Fathers in the selection of them.

Answer 7

For better or for worse, down through the ages, it is what it is, and there's no going back now. St Jerome was shocked at the very bad translations of Holy Scriptures being circulated at the time, so he translated the entire thing into Latin. (the language of most people at the time.) He went to Bethlehem at the time and spoke to many Jewish scholars, some of whom were debating even then whether the books in question were Inspired or not. He got caught up in the debate...and well, there you have it, so suck it up buttercup.

Answer 8

No. According Constatine's record, he said that he saw a vision from God: a cross. He said that God said "use this cross as symbol to destroy your enemy tomorrow" something like this. And so when Constatine won the battle, he adopted Christianity. When he assembled the books to make the Bible, i believe the holy spirit was with him to assemble the books for Bible. And I believe it was part of God's plan.

When you look at book of Thomas, it says that Jesus bit his teacher when he was young and later he found out that he was to teach others. But Jesus was perfect human being, divine, sinless. So, the book didn't make sense

Answer 9

Jesus founded only one church, the Catholic church, and he gave to the Catholic church alone the sweeping power and authority to bind or loose anything in heaven or on earth.

Unless he gave that same authority to you, or to somone else (which he certainly did not) than nobody but the authentic church has any business deciding anything about holy scripture.

Answer 10

Try again. The formation of the bible was earlier.

Answer: Check out any bible version and it will tell you what manuscripts they used. I personally like NIV.

Answer 11

TOTALLY 100% agree. That is the problem with the Bible. It was translated and retranslated some many times by so many different ppl that many of the plain and precious truths were lost. I took an art history class and there was once a monk who depicted moses with horns!!!! like he wasa demon because of an ill retranslation of the bible.