How effective is Chin Na for grappling?

Question

I was thinking of studying Chin Na. I hear it has good "street wise" grappling techniques, but am I better off with BJJ? I want to learn the best grappling art for a STREET FIGHT not a ring fight.

Answer 1

The first post was very good, Chin-Na is better than BJJ in a real fight as you NEVER want a fight to last long enough to end up on the ground no matter how good you are on the ground. With Chin-Na you can cause damage to ANY part of the body that you touch limbs,fingers,face, ears,mouth,neck,nose,hair etc. To Judomofo, go to youtube and type in chin-na and see what you think!

Answer 2

Chin na, is not a separate art.

It is part of all arts.

It is the same as Tuite or Tuidi(Okinawan).

The techniques are associated with the art you are studying.

You cannot do chin na if you don't have the method of seizing implied by the art.

If someone is teaching chin na, it is because they extracted the techniques from the art they teach but the techniques are Shaolin if the teacher is of Shaolin, and White Crane chin na, and so on.

So, if you are learning chin na, it comes from an already established art.

BJJ floor grappling is not grappling in general. It is only a part of grappling.

Most people have the misconception that grappling consists of what BJJ players do. It is just floor grappling.

There are some kata that teach floor techniques like the Okinawa Shuri Te Kata, Naihanchi. That is grappling, but just a part of grappling.

The art of Okinawa before the Chinese Envoys were sent as part of a cultural interchange was called "ti". It was a grappling art similar to the Chinese Shuai Jiao. "ti" became influencced by the arts taught by the envoys and from there we get the Classical Okinawan Art of Toudi-Jutsu, which became modified and changed to Karate-Jutsu, then Karate-Do.

Answer 3

Chin Na is not a martial art. Chin Na or Qinna (擒拿, pinyin: qín ná; Wade-Giles: ch'in2 na2; Cantonese: kàhm nàh) is a Chinese term describing techniques used in the Chinese martial arts that control or lock an opponent's joints or muscles/tendons so he cannot move, thus neutralizing the opponent's fighting ability. Also chin na su, (traditional Chinese: 術; pinyin: shù meaning technique) literally translates as technique of catching and locking in Chinese. Some schools simply use the word na to describe the techniques. In order to learn the techniques you will obviously have to take a chinese martial art. Depending on the chinese martial art you want to learn some of them are very effective in self defense and some of them are just for fitness.

Answer 4

for a street fight, Chin Na is very effective.. in an MMA/UFC type ring fight, you'd be better off with BJJ.. I've been put into some very painful Chin Na holds.. I know the person doing the move on me could've easily broken fingers or my wrist if he wanted to.. the reason it wouldn't work in the ring is because you can't break bones in a ring fight, so as soon as you release the Chin Na hold, the person would be back to punching you again..

another nice thing about Chin Na is that you can immobilize someone with very little effort on your part.. in BJJ, you have to take them to the ground which means you're going down with them.. out on the street, this can create an awful scene, not to mention if you're wearing nice clothes you're going to end up filthy..
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judomofo: in all fairness, you do raise some good points.. Chin Na is not going to work 100% of the time.. it depends on the level of the fight.. if both people are going at it with everything they've got, then Chin Na wouldn't be my first choice.. but if someone comes up to you and punches you once, slaps you, shoves you, grabs you, etc. then Chin Na might be a good recourse.. it's a good tool to supplement other martial arts, but I wouldn't rely on Chin Na as my only form of self defense..

Answer 5

with regards to if chin,na is so effective then why don`t the military use it?? well they actually do use it and its being taught to the military in iraq to this present day also many police forces are taught it across the world chin,na is a very broad system and uses antigrappling and seizing techniques to end a fight as quickly as possible when faced with multiple attackers it doest just use small joint manipulation techniques it concentrates on every single joint in the body including chokes and as far as im concerned its not entirely different to alot of other martial arts such as aikido and judo its just that an art such as kungfu combines it with wrestling techniques punching and kicking knees headbutts etc also consider the fact that what they do learn in the military are easy to learn but effective techniques but none the less they are still chin,na techniques and also the art of jujitsu is comprised of chin,na techniques but not the small joint techniques because of the samurais armour as previously mentioned, locking someones arm behind their back and pushing them too the floor is also a chin,na technique

Answer 6

I have trained in Chin Na and Jujitsu (not Brazilian), I have sparred against and studied Judo and Aikido fighters as well. I must say that for street fighting Chin Na is actually more applicable, however you must also know your basic blocks and strikes as well for it to be functional. Traditionally Chin Na was never taught alone, but in conjunction with other martial arts, because of the fact that it functions as a "secondary" defense, as all grappling arts are meant to be. I learned Chin Na after I reached a certain level training in Choy Li Fut (Kung Fu). Chin Na does a lot of joint/wrist/arm locks that are simple and quick. Despite arguments about resistant opponents, just like when I sparred with Jujitsu, I sparred using strikes with Chin Na, and it works. When I learned Jujitsu I was taught that historically it was used by the samurai for situations in which 2 samurai had to battle without using their swords (for whatever reasons) and since samurai wore armor normal strikes wouldn't do them any damage. So they had to use body weight, breaks, and locks to defeat opponents. So in its very nature Jujitsu is a "backup plan." For a fast-paced, spontaneous, and short street fight Jujitsu cannot keep you safe. Though it has some techniques that can be applied while standing, when learning jujitsu you spend the majority of your practice time, sparring time, and class time on the ground. Truthfully you do not want to plan to go to the ground in a street fight. Fights rarely do anyway because they are usually over in under 1 minute, and if you do go to the ground, and then proceed to use all your fancy jujitsu moves, you will scrape your skin of on the cement or dirt (because that's what the ground is made of in the street) and because, unlike the samurai who invented the art, you are not wearing armor. I must add, however, that I think Judo is a pretty good street fighting art; though I haven't trained in Judo what I've learned from reading and watching other fighters trained in it is that it is mostly a standing grappling art. I have read that Judo is a martial art comprised of all the standing techniques from jujitsu, with a healthy sprinkling of original techniques as well. Judo fighters don't roll on the ground, but instead meet their opponents head on and throw them to the ground, whereby the opponent can be finished of with strikes. As long as you keep yourself off the ground whatever grappling art you learn should keep you safe on the street.
Happy Training.

Answer 7

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Answer 8

Chin Na is so good, UFC banned most of it. (Small Joint Manipulation is the English Term for these techniques)... So in a real fight, I'm using everything UFC banned. Headbutts, groin strikes, fishhooking, etc..

Answer 9

Judomofo has it right.
Look, if BJJ weren't effective in a real fight, do you think the police and the army would have to learn it?

Answer 10

Wow.... above posters... man.

The first problem about Chin Na, in addition to Aikido, Aikijutsu, and other such small joint manipulation moves is that they aren't practiced with any such resistance. So yes in theory you can grab a guy by the wrist, hold his finger and move him. But in practicality he will be punching you while you attempt this, and will easily pull away any arm that gets threatened.

Also, BJJ, Judo, Sambo, etc do not require you to be on the ground to execute their techniques. Seriously you people need to actually learn what the hell you are talking about.

There are MANY standing chokes and joint locks in Judo, a large portion of moves can be done whilst standing.

Finger locks and wrist locks have one problem, they do not isolate a large portion of the body. I imagine if I stand and let a Chin Na practioner fully grab onto something and apply a hold it will hurt. So does most pain compliance techniques. But someone isn't going to stand there and allow you to do it.

They are going to be actively fighting you, and while your hands are tied up manipulating one hand, the other hand will be punching you and they will be pulling away.

Not to mention I have broken my fingers plenty of times in Judo matches and fighters, I have broken my hand as well. It was painful but did not end a fight, in fact I still hit with a broken hand, still gripped with broken fingers.

Reality isn't the fantasy world that these people try to tell you. Where guy comes up to you on the street, posturing and you calmly put in him a Chin na technique, wrist lock, finger grab, etc. He realizes your skill and walks away scared.

Reality is you either get sucker punched or jumped, have to react to a guy on top of you swinging for the fences. He may get a head lock, or just tackle you. There will be no wrist grap, no finger lock, just him on top of you, teeing off.

If these things were so damned effective why is it they aren't taught by Military? Why do Law Enforcement only attempt to use pain compliance once they have a person on the ground under control? (Mostly just to get someone to put their hands behind their backs).

However opinions will vary, personally I have never seen Chin Na, actively sparred or small joint manipulation done on a scale where someone is actively trying to avoid having it applied to them. I see Uke grabbing Tori's wrist, Tori executes pressure point technique, or wrist lock, finger lock etc, sometimes throwing a blow to disorient before applying it, while Uke stands still and gets put in the lock.

Now if you find a place where they are actively trying to lock you while you resist to the fullest, then I would say you have found an effective place.

Byak answer is hilarious.

What world is it that some of you live in where you think a street fight occurs when someone just walks up to you and challenges you to a fight? Then you dispose of them quickly and quietly and go back to sipping on your Sake?

No, REAL street fights occur either because one or both participants are drunk, or there is someone gives another a serious motivation for violence.All of these things can be avoided. It is VERY rare that someone will jump out from the bushes and attack you, and if they do it will be from behind and not in front. Think maybe a brick to the head. People who wish to assault you randomly usually would be someone who wanted to rob you, and they don't want to expend the effort of a fair fight. They will either attack you in a group, or bring a weapon.

Or they are pyschopathic killers.

In whatever the case, aside from drunken antics or bruised egos, you getting in a real life self defense fight for your life scenario is about as likely as getting bitten by a shark, or hit by lightning. More or less depending on where you live and how much common sense you have.

Regardless, you will find even under light contact resistance, Chin Na type of techniques are not very effective and are easily prevented. Now combine that with adrenaline, full speed and intensity, and see how much harder it is to apply ANY technique. Couple that with the fact your would be attacker is also going to be under adrenaline and at the very least will be very tolerant to pain either thru adrenaline or drugs.

So breaking a finger, or wrist will not stop them, it will not end the fight, and your concentration on that will cause you to take a beating.

However, a well secured choke. There is no fighting it, no amount of pain tolerance needed, it is just solid fundamental simple to apply technique that can be done standing or on the ground.

Just something to think of. Just because something is banned from a competetion doesn't mean it is worthwhile, it is done to help limit injuries. Not fight ending injuries, but injuries in general. Plenty of fighters have fought with broken hands, ribs, and damaged joints.

Study what you feel is fun, and that you enjoy. Just remember to apply it in alive training against resisting opponents and learn how it works, what works, what sets it up, and it's effective for you.

Good luck!