16th Amendment Federal Reserve Bank's Scam?

Question

Our income tax as derived from wages may go to the treasury dept. however, isn't it a little suspicious that the amount of wage originated tax revenue is almost precisely the same as the interest owed by the U.S. Government to the federal reserve bank?

This is to say, the lip service paid by the U.S. Government stating such terms as "Your tax dollars at work", and "we need to increase taxes to such and such an end..." is just that, lip service.

Where is the accounting to say otherwise? I mean, the logic here would mean that the govt. borrows from the fed res bank for the monies that are said to be tax derived funds for the many programs. While the taxes we pay can not begin to pay the principal of this constantly growing debt.

Schools, roads, PD,FD, welfare, etc. (local programs) are paid for by sales and state and property taxes . The Armed Forces and other federal expences are covered by Corporate tax revenues.

I don't want to be right on this. Please prove me wrong

I do not depent on protesters alone for my facts. I have been trying to find the truth and protesters are little more helpful than the Govt. Little is better than none but still weak.
I just want to sift through the B.S. on both sides. One side says this is the law but can't show me and the other says the reverse and can only site the formers' lack of documentation to support it. The real question goes beyond the posted question. Do we just accept what the Govt or protesters say is law? Or do we want disclosure, from officialy documented law. This includes article and section that specificly addresses the issue? Also where can I see it for my self.

Cool stuf so far. Lots of good documentation. But tables are not laws. Sure they are supported by laws, But i just want the one that changed the taxability of individuals when the 16th was ratified. That one. Just give me the number. I don't want to know who this applies to. I want to know why this applies.

Answer 1

Sorry, but there is no truth to your silly allegations whatsoever. The US Government doesn't owe the Fed anything. Nor is the revenue from personal income taxes equal to the interest on the deficit -- it's actually 3 to 4 times higher. Two common claims by the tax protestor kooks but totally and completely baseless.

I won't waste my time proving you wrong as you haven't provided anything to back up your assertions other than a pile of blowhard rhetoric.

You say that nobody can show you the law. Guess you're too stupid to accept that Title 26 IS law -- typical of the tax kook position. Must be that they're all illiterate I guess.

Answer 2

1) You're wrong. In 2006, individual income tax revenue for the federal government was over $1 Trillion. In that same year, the interest on the federal debt was just over $400 billion. Very high but far from "precisely the same..."

2) I think the you would find that most of our federal debt is held by the central banks of Japan and China.

3) Stop reading Tax Protester literature and website. There is very little of the truth contained in them.

4) Go to your shrink and have him change your medication. Something isn't quite right between your ears......

Answer 3

Measured using Purchasing Power Parity inflation over 100 years has been largely irrelevant for U.S. citizens. People in the U.S. have far more purchasing power now than they did in 1913 because of international trade and increased productivity. There has to be inflation to account for an increase in the population and an increase in commerce. There is far more commercial activity within the U.S. now than there was in the early 1900s. The inflation over 100 years is essentially irrelevant when measuring the well-being of a nation. It is better to look at the purchasing power in terms of what people can actually buy. People then used to spend far more of their total income on food despite the numbers showing that there has been inflation. You Ron Paul nuts need to quit complaining about inflation. We are not being decimated by inflation, in fact right now it is hard to find a credible economist that hasn't been wrong about the economic crisis from the start that doesn't say we need more inflation in the short-run. Most economists say there should be a natural rate of inflation to keep up with these pressures such as a growing population. The standard amount is considered between 3-4%. With 3.5% inflation since your time the increase is actually only 2913%, which is more than the number you have here. Of course none of this will matter to you because it isn't based on paranoia, gold, and fantasy. There isn't a single coherent anti-Fed poster here. The income tax started not as a conspiracy by the Fed, but to pay for wars. After this it was increased to make up for income lost by the elimination of tariffs. Benkido doesn't have even an elementary level understanding of basic economics. An interest rate of .05% will not stay that low if there is inflation, it will increase along with inflation for the most part. There will be a little lag. The interest rates are kept low right now because of the economic damage done during the Bush administration. This would have been another Great Depression if the U.S. did not have control of its currency, i.e. used a Gold Standard. Also, it is possible that the U.S. dollar will one day be replaced as the world's reserve currency, but there is no indication that it is happening right now. In fact people are still buying up U.S. Treasury bonds even at a rate near 0%. The outright stupidity based on ignorant paranoia on these boards never ceases to amaze me.

Answer 4

It's not supposed to be this way. (and I have not checked your numbers.) It is unfortunate that the Republicans controlling both the Exec and the Legis branches of government have run up such terrible wages, in turn both sucking up our tax revenues and driving up interest rates. It used to be that Republicans were the party of good fiscal management but not any more. I suppose that Nixon was the last Republican president to not run a deficit. Sadly, we cannot financially afford Republican leadership anymore. (and I'm Republican and like Greenspan dismayed by the management of the past 7 years.)

Answer 5

I find it suspicious that we never had income tax until 1913 and the country was just fine.

I Don't care what these economists say with their analysis, I think the fed is unconstitutional and want to see it Abolished.

Too much power is given and too many secrets are kept. The income tax code is a mess and we should get rid of that too.

The deal is all these guys make a lot of money in the present system and they come off pretty arrogantly. They will say or do just about anything to kep us slaves to this system.

Lets be done with it. Lincoln printed greenbacks and they worked fine.

Answer 6

Where do I begin?

1. 16th amendment passed by Congress in 1909, ratified by the states in early 1913. Federal Reserve Act wasn't signed into law until December 24, 1913. So how in the world can the 16th amendment be a Federal Reserve scam?

2. Amount of individual income taxes collected in 2006, $1.04 trillion. Amount of the U.S. Government debt, about $8.7 trillion at the end of 2006. In order for all income taxes to pay the interest on the debt, the interest rate would have to be close to 12%. The interest rate isn't anywhere near that. The actual interest rate on the debt is close to 4.7%.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=203
http://www.fms.treas.gov/bulletin/index.html
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

3. The Federal Reserve only holds about $800 billion of the U.S. Government debt. Anybody can see the amount of interest paid to the Federal Reserve on U.S. Government securities by looking at the INDEPENDENTLY AUDITED FINANCIAL STATEMENTS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/rptcongress/annual06/pdf/audits.pdf
I'll make it easy for you. The audit report is on page 21. The combined statement of income is on page 23. Under "Interest Income" is the $36.5 billion interest collected. Farther down the page under "Distribution of Net Income" is the $29.1 billion payment to the U.S. Treasury as "Payments to U.S. Treasury as interest on Federal Reserve notes".
There is the accounting that blows your argument right out of the water.

4. The U.S. Government doesn't need to borrow money from the Federal Reserve. The U.S. Government borrows money just like major corporations do, it issues bonds. The U.S. Government issues bonds on the open market and ANYONE who can afford the price of the bonds can buy them.

5. BTW, even though the current U.S. Government debt is $9.15 trillion, over $4 trillion is held by the U.S. Government. Another $800 billion is held by the Federal Reserve. Only about $4.2 trillion is held by foreign governments, corporations and private individuals.
http://www.fms.treas.gov/bulletin/index.html

EDIT: You want to know laws? Bostonian gave you a law. Title 26 of the U.S. Code is prima facie law. The Internal Revenue Act of the 1954 and the Tax Reform Act of 1986 is positive law.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sup_01_26.html
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode01/usc_sec_01_00000204----000-.html

The Federal Reserve is setup under another law. Title 12, Chapter 3 of the U.S. Code.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode12/usc_sup_01_12_10_3.html

EDIT: BTW, the first income tax in the U.S. was in 1861. Other methods of funding the government have become untenable. Before income taxes, the government subsisted on tariffs, duties and excises. Tariffs and duties restrict trade between nations and in today's world, would be difficult. The only other option would be a sales tax and the merits of that are debatable.

Answer 7

Conspiracy sites succeed when intelligent people swallow their message, hook, line, and sinker without cross-checking the information.

Let me help you.

1) Look up revenue from income taxes: $809B
(ref: http://www.publicagenda.org/issues/factfiles_detail.cfm?issue_type=federal_budget&list=7)

2) Look up net interest on the national debt: $239B
(Ref: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2008/summarytables.html )

Hmmm....already there is a huge discrepancy from what the conspiracy sites say.

Let's continue...

3) Look up the budget of the Federal Reserve: $2.9B
(Ref: http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/foia/frbbankbudgets/2007ReserveBankBudgets.pdf) - This includes all dividend payments to member banks.

4) Look up who owns the debt (Ref: http://www.fms.treas.gov/bulletin/b2007-3fd.doc ). The Fed Res owns $800B of the debt. By law, the Fed has to return excess income to the Treasury so the vast majority of the interest earned on debt owned by the Fed is returned.

Most is owned by Japan and China.

From your last sentence, it would seem you are open to contrary info. I hope you find the answers here useful.

Answer 8

Actually, welfare, schools, and roads, although run locally, are paid partially with federal money. For example, the federal government pays 80% of the cost of new construction of interstate highways; the state pays only 20%.