May I ask a Question to Hopeless and Davey Boy users of the Israel Section???

Question

I am impressed with your opinions on the Messianic Judaism questions and I wanted to encourage both of you not to get discouraged by the aggressive users in this section. You are both good contributors to Yahoo answers in this section. People like both of you are a good example of how we Jews really respect other the religion of others.

Question: How are we as Jews affected by the Messianic movement???

What have they done for many of our people to be so hateful in showing spite towards them???

I personally, feel Jews can believe in Allah if they choose to or in Jesus. It makes no difference to me and I don't believe in excommunication with out people. I respect them for it. I realize that many of them are not Jewish and pretend to be without having gone through the conversion according to Jewish Halacha and that bothers me. But I respect Jews who are Jewish and want to join them in their beliefs.

paperback, I understand you, I am not attacking you, your answer makes a lot of sense as to how you feel about the messianic movement. You have a right to express it. I know we as humans can easily get on the defensive. Sometimes what we write comes a lot stronger than intended.

I actually agree with everyone's answers. 2 Jews, 3 opinions... But everyone is correct in so many ways... It is hard to decide on a best answer for now.

HopelessZOO- Feel free to ask us questions and your answers are always welcome. Yahoo answers is not intended to embarrass anyone, but sometimes we all forget and we do it unintentionally.

Tabatha said something very interesting: The very minute anyone claims to be Jewish, and in the same sentence insists that Jesus was the true messiah and that Jews 'will' and 'must' ultimately recognize him as such: in that minute, they prove they are not Jewish.

That describes the messianic movement.

But we are not "Robots" who are controlled by religion. Jews have freedom of choice and they can choose to believe what ever they wish and should be respected for it. And I mean a Jewish person not a non-Jew from the messianic movement who claims to be Jewish.

Paul C: Great answer and Good links to support your point.

Laura G.: You know that not all of us feel that way about you. You are a special friend and part of us no matter what the religion says. You are one of us... As Tabatha pointed out the Reform movement thinks so too.

Answer 1

Kane #1 fan: I will first tell you that I don't really know anything about Judaism, I have tried to ask many questions and took part in many questions as to find the answers and to understand Judaism in full. From what I gather most Jews believe in the old testament, and the Torah. Messianic Jews believe in the new testament, as well as the Torah(you will have to correct me plz if I am wrong).
#1 I believe that I'm human, a very good human, I have travelled extensively, not as a tourist but to volunteer as an ESL teacher. I have met many people from many many different religions. And I completely respect all religions and all beliefs. As I travelled mostly in hot spots of the world , I saw the most horrid things done in the name of religion and faith. It hurts me so much when I see anyone put down anothers beliefs. I believe that there is only one God. And if people believe in that one God and not focus on what other people are doing, or judge others for what they believe, then we have a loving society. I've heard people say that the Messianic movement wants to convert people. But I think if one is strong and true in there faith they cannot be converted. Also to mention I have not seen any Messianic Jews try to convert anyone. (maybe there has been). But why be so afraid?
In answer to your second question: Until I have been shown evidence that a human could have commited such a big sin to another human (meaning the Messianic Jews to the Jews) I don't understand why any should show spite to them.
I am muslim. I hear comments everyday about muslims. They this , they that, . People tend to look at the whole of a group as bad , when in fact many are very different, not all the same. There are good people and bad people.
In the end, let people be free to believe , its a basic human right, I do understand that some can't and maybe that's also ok. But at least they should keep it to themselves and not point it out. It hurts people. We learn as children that its not ok to hurt people with our words. If we don't have something good to say don't say it at all. Jews were oppressed yes, Jews went through discrimination yes. It is oppression to put down another for what they believe. A nice dream that tomorrow I will wake up and see peace, tolerance, respect , ....yeah a nice dream. Peace to you!

Answer 2

Firstly, to Laura G:

I really don't blame you for being rather bitter, I think it's totally understandable.

The only thing I'd say is that, and I may be wrong, I have a feeling that a Reform synagogue would recognize you as Jewish and would not demand conversion. The more orthodox synagogues and Rabbis are more rigid about this, naturally.

To the questioner:

I'm sorry, but you are misunderstanding why some of us are critical of messianics.

Many messianic groups, such as the most infamous, 'Jews for Jesus' were created purely to collect members and to dilute, and pervert, true Judaism.

Now personally, I don't really care how a person worships, or what they worship. If a non Jew enjoys Judaism and wants to go to Synagogue, and study the Torah, and celebrate the Jewish festivals - wonderful! I welcome them with open arms.

But they are still a non Jew, however much they are involved with the religion.

The very minute anyone claims to be Jewish, and in the same sentence insists that Jesus was the true messiah and that Jews 'will' and 'must' ultimately recognize him as such: in that minute, they prove they are not Jewish.

Because Jews do not believe that G-d is ever made manifest in flesh, on earth: this is a Christian belief. Jesus, as son of G-d.

If I was telling everyone I was Christian, yet at the very same time, arguing against the CORE Christian beliefs, and also telling Christians that THEY were wrong and I knew best - would those Christians be happy?

I doubt it!

We wouldn't accept any other religion being defined by peoople outside the faith. Yet you think it's OK to do this with Judaism!

It's really very wrong.

Answer 3

To Tabatha when you say Jews can't be Jewish if they believe in Jesus, "Because Jews do not believe that G-d is ever made manifest in flesh, on earth: this is a Christian belief. Jesus, as son of G-d" That is a contradicting statement from our Jewish people because many of our people don't believe in G-d anyways. The main reason we feel threaten by the Messianic movement is the deceitful tactic as christians pretending to be Jews in order to convert us. The years of persecution didn't work out well so now they came up with a new plan. They need to learn how to respect us for what we believe.

Answer 4

This raises the question, what is a Jew? If it is a race then religious questions are irrellevent. If it is a religion, then which one is it? There is Orthodox, Reform, Conservative, Reconstructionist, Karaite, Chasidic and many other movemants. If it is a form of Torah observance, then all of the above and Messianic Judaism are valid. As I understand it, each has a different definition though the majority recognize each other while excluding Messianic Judaism and looking down upon Reconstructionist, Karaite and other controversial movements. The state of Israel defines it according to both religious observance and extends it to paternal and maternal heritage. Only Hashem can really define this, in my opinion. I leave it in his hands to judge me and I may have strong opinions about the truth, but I respect the opinions of others and do not try to tell them they are not Jewish for having a different opinion. I think the reason the Messianic movement is so controversial is their belief in Jesus and the thousands of years of severe persecution by Christians. Even Talmud has been edited to remove references to Jesus. Christians would burn it because of them. It was used as an excuse to torture and kill Jews. Jews were forced to convert and today Messianics are viewed as a combination of gentiles pretending to be Jews and Jews who have been tricked into conversion to Christianity. Those Christians today who may see it the same way and those Jews who are threatened by the Messianics find it difficult to objectively empathize.

Shalom

Answer 5

Thanks. I am not bothered by the negative comments as long as they don't stalk me and try to delete my account.

The problem with many messianics who are not Jewish and try to target Jews for conversion by pretending to be Jews and that has upset many Jews. I still think Jews can be Jewish and believe whatever they want and it won't change who they are. It's just a belief.

I am a Jew because my parents are Jewish and so are my grandparents and their grandparents and great grandparents from Dor L' Dor. I am not a Jesus believer, but if I ever chosed to believe in Jesus, my heritage will never change.

It's just a belief and a religion. It doesn't mean anything to me.

Answer 6

Nobody has shown 'spite' to messianics.

I respect their right to worship as they please but I don't respect the way messianics think they can alter what Judaism represents.

The fact that Hopeless admits knowing nothing about Judaism, yet tells me how I must feel about messianics who misrepresent Judaism, says it all.

PAUL C Excuse me, but the Talmud was not 'edited' to remove references to Jesus. What are you on about?

Jesus is not mentioned once by name in the Torah, nor anywhere else in our writings. YES, we have references to a messiah, or maschiach, but no name is given and we are taught that when the true messiah comes there will be, among other things, peace on earth.

As for your question about 'what is a Jew'; a Jew is someone who has a Jewish mother, or who converts to the religion.

The groups you mention, such as reform, conservative, etc, are simply referring to levels of observance. They all follow the same religion and the same tenets.

Answer 7

They sound confused and don't know who they are. My friend is not Jewish and goes to that messianic place and now is claiming to have been Jewish all her life. But I know her for a long time she is not Jewish and she only changed after she join that cult. Now she has stars of David all over her house and puts menorahs all over her window. On Saturdays her husband wears those capes as he walks throught the neighborhood and a Jewish cap. He is mexican and you can see through him as phony as they come.

No wonder Jews are offended by them. It's like mockery.

Answer 8

The Jewish idea is ridiculous. My father is Jewish and my mother wasn't. She never converted to Judaism and my father never married her because as Jews would call her "shiksa" My mother passed away when I was 6 years old and I grew up with my Jewish grandparents in the Jewish traditions. But the rabbis would not allow me to have a Bat Mitzvah like all my other friends in the shul because I wasn't Jewish to them. My father tried to get me to convert, but in honor of my mother's memory, I refused and will always refuse conversion to Judaism. Don't get me wrong, I love my Jewish side, it's them who won't accept me as one of them. So I missed out on a Bat Mitzvah as half Jewish, and I also missed out on my sweet sixteen, which made me a little bitter.

Since I am rejected by the Jewish community, atleast the Messianic movement has recognized me.

Answer 9

Yes, Jews can certainly believe in Allah (God in Arabic), Mohammad (human), and even Buddha (human). But for Jews, the belief that God would become human is the ultimate heresy. If you believe in a man/god, you cannot be a Jew. Refresh your memory with Deuteronomy VI.

How are we as Jews affected by the Messianic movement? Christians have tried many times to exterminate the Jews. That hasn't worked. They are now trying to convert Jews by deception.
.

Answer 10

We as Jews are only affecting by organizations like "Jews for Jesus" because such groups are by their nature identifying themselves as Jews when they are not. I have no problem with people identifying themsevles with Jesus or Mohammed as long as they don't misrepresent themselves as Jews. My brother married and nice Catholic girl and my Dad's brother married a nice Methodist girl. My cousin identify with their Jewish past - for example - but they don't claim to be Jews because they don't practice the Jewish faith. I love them as I love my Jewish cousins with no difference.

My dislike of organizations like "Jews for Jesus" is their inherent dishonesty. Faith and dishonesty are not friendly with each other.

Good Luck!!!