To the "fence straddling, Y!A God Bashers"....Which is it?

Question

Would you rather have a just God who gives everyone (across the board) the freedom to choose Him or not and live your life just as you please?
OR
a just God who (across the board) dictates every aspect of your life to ensure that nothing bad happens to a single person on the planet?

The hands off God gives you the freedom to drink AND the freedom to kill a teenager in vehicular manslaugter when you drive home trashed from your buddy's house.

The controlling God opens up the earth and destroys anything sinful on the spot across the board....no exceptions.

I ask because for all the bristling at the NOTION of God telling them how to live their OWN lives....those are the same people trying to defame God because He DOESNT intervene in OTHER folks lives to stop suffering around the world.

....good grief. .your freedom to DEFY God is the same freedom that perpetrates the EXISTENCE of suffering.

So embrace all the sin your freedom affords or shaddup.

deflection..deflection...boring

My position is that I accept MY freewill is inseparable from every OTHER persons and they have every right to be as depraved as/less/more depraved as I am. To fault God for the product that freewill produces is like... my 7 year old complaining he because he has to go to bed early but equally complaining when he stays up late and wakes exhausted. You cant have it both ways beloved...

You feel the pain Shirley..amen, amen and amen!

and for your generous answer I'll provide an equally generous reply. First of all, the 'deflection' remark was made 18 hours ago and pointed at a very lame attempt by the first responder to discount what I said by merely assuming Im on a soapbox. That...is boring and completely unimaginative, not to mention cowardly. Now...to address your statement...
Of course I know of whom I speak. Jesus Christ and He is the same God that certain "God Bashers" are referring to when they post their veiled questions. I am defending the God of my faith and of this world (whether anyone else believes that or not). If you are bashing Buddha...then this question was not for you.

The person who got drunk in the first place has that undeniable FREEDOM. And its that same freedom that sets in motion the bad things that happen to 'innocent' people. The point is not that the person was too stupid to call a cab. The point is if they didnt drink in the first place there would be no drunk driver deaths-

Adding God to the equation is exactly what the bashers are doing. I am stating that its God's granted freewill in the first place that unequivocally places the blame for that death on the driver in the second place. Its that same God that I believe in, and give praise through..through good or bad that happens without blaming Him for it because He provided the Answer to living in a sin ladden world. He didnt promise that we wouldnt have trials. He didnt promise that it wont be me who is that person hit head on by the drunk..but He DID promise that if I give my life to Him, I would be able to withstand the life I live, and be with Him in glory when my brief time on this planet is up. The fact that bashers would try to call God cruel or unjust (using their own determination of the words) is beyond ridiculous. To think you can know God and understand His Will and Way is exactly the mindset that brought about the fall of the Tower of Babel.

I am not "telling God" how to be. I am taking the bashers argument and putting it back to them in exactly the same 'black & white' way they are throwing it. If you want to blame God for all the bad that happens but on the same note, you dont want God to tell YOU what to do...which is it?
If you arent one of the people that "bristle", and you arent the one bashing, then you obviously dont fall into the category of 'people' I was referring to do you? So why bother answering at all? I didnt not single out atheists, non-belivers, or agnostics...I said God Bashers...period. I purposely made no distinction of person to circumvent those (like yourself) who would take it as a personal affront. If I throw a rock into a crowd, the person who yells is probably the one who was hit. I did NOT mean fence straddling in faith..I mean fence straddling their rabbid defense of 'freewill' on one hand, and blaming God for what freewill produces on the other hand.

Your definition of defiance is nonsensical and unsupported. My belief in God makes me defiant to whom? To God? Certainly you dont mean defiant to an atheist? The definition of defiant is to resist an opposing force that is in a position of AUTHORITY. To defy orders, commands, or instructions. Based on that definition beloved...I am not being 'defiant' to those who are bashing God. Those bashers are being 'defiant' (which is actually a word you introduced to this conversation) to the authority of God-either by forfeit (disbelief) or willful refusal. Not knowing whether you have read the bible or not, I would guess its easy for you to assume that I am 'formulating' my own interpretation of God. You are sadly mistaken. I am not creating my own version because contrary to widely held belief, there are christians who do more than scream and holler and fall on the floor screaming 'thankyaJesus!'. I study the book..with my whole heart. And those who do, can BEGIN to understand God's Way.

To address your choice A&B, free will is God ALLOWING you to BE that molestor, murderer, raper, pilager...as well as BE that upstanding person in society who does charity work every weekend but still has premarital sex (fornication), fudges his taxes (lying) and watches Playboy (lusting). He says 'sin across the board is sin'. I make no distinction between people. You cannot BUY God with works, or money or favors..like you can with men. God is not corruptible. Freewill IS your right to live this life, exactly as you please with or without Him. The fact that there is a penalty for how you 'act OUT' your free will does not negate the fact that its still freewill. You are trying to argue that because there is a price to pay in the end, somehow your will is not free. I would agree with you if there were no 'get out of jail free card'..which is salvation. A God that would be so forgiving..as to allow all into the Kingdom with just the acceptance of His Son...is beyond JUST.

Man's law says "you mess up in this life and thats it" You will be branded, outcast, denied and derailed. Man is unforgiving and vengeful. His forgiveness is FINITE and corruptible based on how much you line his pockets. God is not this way. Entrance into Heaven, is not this way. If it were, the bashers would be decrying God as a deity merely for the rich who can afford to buy God off. Not so. There is nothing any of us can do to earn entry. Entry is based purely on acceptance..and that acceptance is FREE. So you can use your 'free' how you like and whether you end up with fleeting pleasures or eternal peace...that was your CHOICE as well.

and ending..where I began at the start of this reply, your claim that I am looking for a side-kick is false. Nor do I spurn those who oppose. I never thumbs down, report or attack anyone who responds to my questions. If saying 'deflection' (which the first person's response obviously was) is that so abrasive to you I would guess that explains why you spent so much effort defending yourself against a question/statement that was not directed at you. (or was it?) How sensitive can you get?

Answer 1

Isn't it a little presumptuous of you to think you know which God is the one you speak of? Obviously, people get killed in drunk driving accidents every day because people too stupid to call a cab or a friend when they're drunk actually have the gall to drive. So... this would mean, according to both theories, that the God you believe in is completely unjust.

Do you have any idea how adding God to the equation of drunk driving lessens the responsibility of the driver him/herself? And which God do you believe in? The one in the middle, who does everything perfectly fairly, at least according to some very black & white logic? Since when can anyone attribute his or her own desires of what God should be to Him or Her or It? I thought that was a sin in the Bible. I once gave my idea what I wish a god could be if one existed and I almost had my head bit off by people who didn't understand the question and thought I was DARING to tell ol' god who and what to be - threatened with hellfire and eternal damnation. Yet you can do it and it's alright? I don't bristle at the notion of God telling me how to live my life because I don't BELIEVE in God. Not your god, not his gods or her supreme entity, not ANY God. How can any atheist bristle at something imaginary to him? I also do not defy God, for the very same reasons.

Who here is a fence-straddler? In your 'definition', you seem to think it's any Christian who doesn't think exactly like you or, perhaps, agnostics. Agnostics aren't fence-straddlers, they are people who honestly don't know whether or not a god or gods exist and admit that rather than claiming faith as proof. Agnostics (and atheists) live their lives by their learned sense of morality and don't need a centuries-old book to dictate those. NOT believing in God is not defiance, my friend, but insisting that you do believe and know the goings-on of God's mind IS, to the God you supposedly worship. Worshiping your own version is pretty much proof that God exists nowhere but in the mind.

Choice A: Believe in me and be eternally rewarded even though you've molested children, lied, stolen, cheated, murdered, raped, pillaged, harmed, destroyed and worn cotton-polyester blends or,

Choice B: Don't believe in me and you're going to be eternally tortured in HELL even if you live your life with upstanding values and morals and show compassion, empathy, & kindness in the way you live your life...

...is NOT free will. I repeat, not free will at all. It's barely even multiple choice, and any "god" that would create such a non-choice and call it free will has lost what defines godliness somewhere and therefore either cannot exist as a god or is a human concept.

EDIT: When you write things like "deflection, deflection... boring" you make it clear that you are NOT, in fact, asking a question, but throwing your own views out there for the sole purpose of having someone agree with you. I actually took the time to read and respond to your question and I find it extremely disrespectful that you should 'pooh-pooh' what I (and anyone else who responded) say in such arrogant fashion. If you are sure of your beliefs in this regard then why even ask the question in the first place? At first I thought you might actually want a response but you don't - it seems you just want a sidekick. This is a question & answer forum because that is what people seek - those (and there are many, on all sides, who do this) who utlize Yahoo Answers solely as a soapbox should start a blog. There's no real place here for refusing answers once you ask a question.

Answer 2

Hi, I see you are one of those 'true' christians.

I am answering your rant because you need to be told a few things.

1. People who are 'fence-straddling' (I assume you mean agnostics) don't generally bash 'god' as they don't know if there is one or not so wouldn't want to p*ss 'god' off if it did exist.
2. I am an atheist. I don't bash 'god' as I don't believe there is one.
3. I behave as I please, without the aid of a 2000 year old rule-book, and I think I do pretty well thanks. I don't drink, do drugs, kill, hurt or otherwise maim anyone physically or mentally in the course of my free living.
4. I don't sin, as I don't believe in the concept of sin.
5. I also try not to judge others, something which it appears you are a master at.

I believe I behave in a far more 'christian' way than most of the christians I see, and all that without having to look at a book!!

Answer 3

As if those were the only two options.


I would like there to be a god who has better ethics than I do.

I would like ther to be a god that does not create the disease and parasites that kill and maim babies.

I would like there to be a god that does not let earthquakes and tsunamis to bury people or drag them out to sea exposing them to a long painful death by suffocation or drowning.

I would like there to be a god that can look at the deeds that someone did and not what they believed.

I would like there to be a god that thought that throwing someone into a fiery hell for eternity was a horrific concept that should never be done.


But since that is not one of your potions I guess I am out of luck.

Answer 4

But then, why do you pray, if he allows us to live our lives and not interfere? He did an awful lot of interfering in the Bible. Why does he perform miracles, if he doesn't interfere?

You cant have it both ways, no matter how hard you try.

Kudos for posting a decent question though. So much stuff on this forum is just troll bait :P

Answer 5

Your question is more of a statement and a statement that is very good. God is free to do as he wills and will never control us.

Overall I am glad that God does not intervene like that. This life is a test anyway and will determine how we live eternity. In Heaven or in hell.

Answer 6

I enjoy having free will but I must say that I cannot wait until Armageddon because our earth will be run by a Heavenly Government just as God purposed for us initially, but sadly, mankind wanted to "see" their governments---themselves in action. I regret this, what my earlier ancestors did---early on.

Just think about an earth no longer filled with violence or immorality. Sadly most will lose their lives at Armageddon and I hope I am amongst the living.

Answer 7

Not really and answer, but a vote right on Shriley!
SPEEDING TRUCK!!! LOL
Where does it stop, it won't Jesus predicted these things and we know that it will get UGLY, but just hold on, Jesus is comming back for the ones ready. (so remember that....all the people that disappear...rapture!!!!)
One more thing, how many times have you heard some one say:, if we are all God's children how does a loving God send his children to hell?
The question is...are you God's child or not? Cause if you are God's child, you'll listen to Daddy He knows Best!
Peace of the Lord be with you, Good question!

Answer 8

Hey, we are questioning your beliefs, not ours. Why don't you guys tell us which way it is so we know what to argue against? I mean you tell us your god is love, but we see horrible things happening. The Old Testament makes him out to be a tyrant with the attitude of a three year old who kills people for everything, but then you claim we have free will.

Personally I am quite happy knowing there is NO god.

Answer 9

If I caught you straddling the fence I would call the cops before you got a bunch of splinters in your crotch.

Answer 10

I have my opinion and you have yours...Thou shall do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Please don't try and shove your religion down my throat and all your nonsense babbling makes my head hurt.

I don't post questions like this, where I bash your beliefs... I believe in a higher power, I'm not sure what to call him, but I don't go around telling you that if you don't believe what I do that you are going to spend eternity in a fiery pit of hell just because you didn't acknowledge something you have never seen or have ANY proof of. The bible was written by men, and that is FACT. You are fussing for what? If you think you are going to heaven great!! Why would you bother me? If I want to believe in your God I'll go to your church, but I have a big problem with a man who sins as much as I do and has just as many skeletons in his closet as anyone stand up on Sunday and tell me how to live. How many preachers do you think are going to hell? I would never bash God. Only the idiots who take things so literaly, like you. Thank you for getting me all worked up, now I shall go take a nap and pretend that I never saw such idiocracy today! Thank you and may (fill in the space) be with you!