'RACIST'? your opinions, please?

Question

'Hopeless' has accused me of being racist because I posted a question saying that I resented messianic jews telling me that I would one day 'be open to Jesus'.

I pointed out in my post that no Jewish person believes that Jesus was the messiah. I then removed the question because I realised that it may just provoke an argument and I didn't want to do that.

Now 'Hopeless' tells me I am 'racist'.

Your thoughts? What do you feel about messianic judaism?

Why are non Jews allowed to tell Jews how to define their religion?

BYAKUYA. I appreciate your comments, very interesting. What I would respond: if anyone doesn't understand what 'Jew' refers to, they can just ask someone Jewish, isn't that the most logical thing, really? Because we don't have any confusion!

If I as a Jew, suddenly started trying to tell a Hindu, or a Muslim, that I was of their religion, and then expressed beliefs that DIRECTLY CONTRADICTED those faiths, wouldnt' they resent it? Well, as a Jew I really, really resent being told that I need to read the new testament and that Jesus came to earth to 'save me'. Those are clearly christian beliefs. You can't be Jewish if you believe these things.

IAIN - cheers for that.

Hopeless: firstly, thanks so much for your sweeping generalisation of the 'israeli section'. How sweet of you.

Also, you DO owe me an apology for calling me a racist. Do you know how much that upset me? I would NEVER treat someone differently based on their faith, never!

I don't care if someone wants to be a messianic jew BUT I DO RESENT THEIR TELLING ME THAT I'M THE ONE NOT UNDERSTANDING JUDAISM WHEN IT IS MY RELIGION!

And for you to call me a 'bigot', just because I don't want non Jews lecturing me.... I note you didn't answer my question about how you as a muslim would feel if a non muslim treated you that way! You are a hypocrite.

HOPELESS, 'she' did actually tell me that eventually Jesus would 'show' himself to me etc etc. And stop calling me 'dear', it's really patronising.

Answer my question please: IF A NON MUSLIM, WHO PRACTISED AND BELIEVED THINGS THAT WENT AGAINST ISLAM, THEN CLAIMED THEY WERE MUSLIM, AND TOLD YOU THAT YOUR FAITH WAS WRONG AND ONLY THEY KNEW THE 'TRUTH' ABOUT ISLAM, HOW WOULD YOU FEEL?

Why won't you answer?

Da man, thank you for saying that, I am glad that someone understands how I am feeling.

Hopeless: you ask why I posted this instead of emailing you privately: this is why. Because you PUBLICLY called me a racist. So why should I not defend myself in public?

You could have told me your email was open, and then in private, you could have had your say. But no, you accused me of racism in front of everyone else in this forum. So don't you now be having a go at me for not emailing you privately. YOU started this, now I'm ending it. I await your apology for calling me racist when all my answers in the past show I am not in the least.

PWEI34 my objection is more that messianics profess to be jews but then they say and do things that contravene judaism. They cannot define judaism, only people who follow true judaism can do this, and this involves knowing jesus was not the messiah.

SPREEZ you have nothing to say sorry for, you did not 'cause' all this; always you are sweet and polite.

If you get a minute, please look at the wiki references that the answerer before you kindly included; those links can explain my feelings better than I can and I think then you will see where I'm coming from.

I like many of your answers in Israel forum, let's just agree to disagree about religion.

Answer 1

"Racist" means harboring prejudices against another person based solely on his/her "race".

There are five "races" : white, black, brown, yellow and red.

There is no "Jewish race" since Judaism includes members of all races in its faith.

There is no "Christian race", no " Islamic race", no "female race", no "Arab race", no "American race", etc.

For someone to call you a racist based on a RELIGIOUS remark is just plain ignorant.

Period.

Also, given that type of mentality and the answers they give, ALL Muslim posters in this section could be classified as "racists" . . . which, to my knowledge, NO Jewish poster has done so far, because the Jewish posters know there is no "Muslim" race . . . .

Answer 2

First of all in just a kid too so I don't know so much. First of all don't call the police and your dad is wrong for a death threat the police will just come to your house and make sure you're okay, they won't take you away for just a threat. Second he may not have been lagging or even smiling but I am 99% sure he was kidding. He was not trying to be funny or make people laugh but he obviously wasn't thinking before speaking but he just said that to mess aroun (of course I wasnt there I was just assuming). By the way that wasn't so racist. He didn't use a certain N word, S word, W word, or C word. Of course he shouldn't have said that but it wasn't so bad. I wouldn't be so upset about the racism as you should be about the death threats. I hope I helped.

Answer 3

Generally, I don't care what people call themselves or their religion, so long as they are kind, fair and compassionate to their fellow human beings.

But if I'm being really candid, then there seems to be something a bit unfair going on here.

For example: how would Christians feel if I went around, claiming to be a Christian, claiming I could speak on behalf of all Christians, and then insisted that in fact, Mohammed ( just to give an arbitrary example) was the true saviour of mankind?

And if I then told these Christians that THEY had got it all wrong, in fact, and that they could only avoid hell by accepting Mohammed?

And if I THEN misrepresented their new testament - what then? Would Christians be OK with this?

Dr Shmoo: really sorry, but you have been misinformed. The Old Testament references make it crystal clear that Jesus was NOT the messiah.

The Jews back then knew all the signs that would show that the genuine article, the real deal, had arrived.

Paul, who really started Christianity, never even MET Jesus!

Why would the Jews not have welcomed Jesus if all the necessary signs were there?

It makes no sense.

You also have to note that not all, but many "messianic jews" do mispresent Judaism to people outside the faith.

Is that in any way fair?

How can someone who is acting against the CORE beliefs of Judaism claim to speak for all Jews? Is it any wonder we get a tad fed up?!

Oy vey - don't we have enough problems?!!!


PLEASE NOTE: I only used example of Mohammed to illustrate a point; no offence whatsoever intended, as I'm sure my Muslim contacts on this site will know, hopefully.

Answer 4

Anything seen as a criticism of Israel is seen by some people as racist. This is nonsense. If it were true, there would be no politics in Israel.

I believe that reformed Judaism is called Christianity, but there you go.

I don't understand, how can you call yourself a messianic Jew and believe Jesus H. Christ was the messiah. It must be an oxymoron at least. Are these people not Christians but too stupid or proud to admit it?

You are NOT a racist.

lol

Answer 5

I am a Semite, the race of most the Jewish people. I am Jewish by birth and by choice. I am probably a conservative-reform Jew. I do not believe in Christ as a messiah. (Even though the person above me says being a reform Jew make you a Christian). I am an American, I have no desire to live in Israel any more than I want to live in Bora Bora. I am very proud of who and what I am. But I will never tell anyone or any faith how to believe. In fact I do not always believe in what you ask or answer. I believe you have the right to say it. I was in the US Air Force and fought a war to defend the Constitution of the United States which guarantees the right of free speech.

A bigot who is someone who only sees with one eye and half a brain. They are so set in their ways that they can never believe that other ways can exist. No ma'am you are no bigot. You ask, you give your opinion, you listen to others, and you are always polite in how you handle yourself. I have no idea where you live, but would enjoy having your family meet mine over a cup of coffee.

Answer 6

I've read all your posts and, in fact, you are one of my contacts. You always write clearly and intelligently and with courage. I feel the same way you do about Messianic so-called "Jews". Please do not give one more thought to Hopeless; there are people in this world who are so full of themselves and their own thoughts, that they lose some of their humanity. You are not a racist; you are not bigoted and it is a shanda that someone would say you were. Stay strong and be proud of being Jewish! I sure am!

Answer 7

the problem is that when someone uses the word Jew, nobody knows if they're talking about an ethnic group or a religion.. people who are ethnically Jewish could potentially believe that Jesus is the messiah.. people who follow the Jewish religion cannot believe Jesus is the messiah because that belief would violate their religion and as soon as they accepted that belief, they would cease to be of the Jewish religion and become followers of the Christian religion instead..

Answer 8

Hopeless has redefined her criticism of Paperback by suggesting she is a "bigot". Lots of people are bigoted about their religion, Jews are not immune from this.

However, this is in regard to Messianic Jews- people who follow Jewish observances but are otherwise Christians. Many are former Jews, but others are Gentiles who simply see Judeo-Christianity as a more authentic form of the Christian faith.

Many Jews, Paperback included it appears see this movement as simply a trawling exercise for converts, and an impingement on Jewish turf to boot. Whether this reflects bigotry is debatable. Here is some further information to fuel the debate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_for_Jesus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews

Answer 9

Anybody can give their opinion of a certain religion, but you certainly shouldnt be accused of racism because you disagree with them.

If Hopeless calls you a racist s/he is wrong - for one thing, based on the information you gave, I cant see how your discussion had anything to do with race

Answer 10

I totally agree with you - you are NOT a racist. As a jewish person I really have no opinion on messianic judaism (probably because I cannot fathom it), and non Jews are entitled to their opinions, but they may NOT tell me how to define my religion.

Answer 11

You're a racist because you don't like messianics?
Okay - so I'm also a racist.

I'll tell you what I hate so much about those bastards? When they stand outside a synagogue as the children come out from Hebrew school and hand them a leaflet inviting them to a Purim party with clowns and kosher food etc and it's all free - but no mention of it being a messianic function.

Kid comes home all excited, shows it to dad, who drops kid off outside of the function and drives off to his golf club - leaving these bastards to pump all sorts of nonsense into their heads.

Oh dear - I referred to them as bastards twice - sorry, I meant to say it 3 times.