Catholics and Protestants: Please clarify these extremely BASIC truths about Christianity?

Question

A tangled web of lies does nothing but confuse the masses and lead them to death and hell…
Do we not desire ALL to really know the truth and be saved?

Very well…
The chief points of the Reformation were as follows:
Salvation is by GRACE alone.
Salvation is through FAITH alone.

Now, the Catholic church excommunicated people for believing and proclaiming these truths, even to the point of speaking a curse upon them and throwing them in jail!

But, now…certain Catholics seem to be indicating that “true” Catholic doctrine teaches that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone?

I use to be a Catholic…or rather, a “pseudo-Catholic”…and became an atheist. Now that the Lord has revealed Himself to me, do you Catholics have the audacity to say that He is leading me back to Rome Catholicism?

-

I see a LOT of truth in Catholicism…MUCH of which is simply misunderstood by non-Catholics, but do you really expect me to “swallow” some of the Catholic Church’s teaching – submitted to “Her”…as if “She” is God Himself?!? And meanwhile, “She” teaches things that are blatantly contradictory to that which God has personally revealed to me by His Spirit in His Word…? Are you saying that there is no personal revelation of God to a person?

Truly, if I returned to the Catholic Church, I would likely get excommunicated like Luther because my heart would desire the church to repent of “Her” false teachings! The Holy Spirit within me would grieve me to despair…and like Jeremiah, I wouldn’t be able to keep quiet, for the burning fire within!

Look, either Satan is deceiving me…or Satan is deceiving you Catholics. Either way, my anger burns for the Lord’s glory – for Him to be worshipped as He deserves, in spirit and in truth…! And I honestly desire for ALL of us to know the truth…!

But what do you make of all of these claims – all of which come directly from the Catholic Cathecism?
http://www.carm.org/catholic.htm

Some have the audacity to accuse and condemn me for speaking out against the Catholic Church! But who is the accuser of the bretheren? And who is it that condemns? Let God be true, and every man (Catholic and Non-Catholic) a liar!

-

Answer 1

I too was where you were, and now, by God's grace, believe in the true Gospel, the Gospel of grace. One of the main points of the reformation was the sufficiency of Christ's work for the forgiveness of sin. We believe it was all sufficient, as His words in John 19:30 revealed:
"It is finished".

teleō
tel-eh'-o
to end, that is, complete, execute, conclude, discharge (a debt): - accomplish, make an end, expire, fill up, finish, go over, pay, perform.

The work of forgiveness for His people was complete, finished, nothing more needs to be done. The RCC would dispute this, hence, confession, the mass and purgatory.

Answer 2

I was brought up a Catholic, became an atheist for 25 years, and I came home to Rome. I did a lot of studying, and the thing that got me was Jesus saying that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church.

75 years ago, all the major denominations believed in the same moral truths. Now, for the most part, the RC Church stands alone. God's truth doesn't change. Practices, the way things are implemented - these things do. So how can those who are Prot claim to be His true Church?

I have a couple of pamphlets on what the Church believes and how everything can be traced back to Bible verses. In addition, if you go deep in history to the early Church Fathers, you will see that they were very 'Catholic'. I would strongly recommend reading Rome, Sweet Home by Scott Hahn, a former Prot. theologian.

Here are some good links:
http://catholic.com/library/scripture_tradition.asp

Decent book:
http://shop.catholic.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/p-B0600.html?L+scstore+sllk1827ff14d414+1225624872

Of course, I can't find the pamphlets that were sent to me after I decided to become Catholic again. Well, if you want a copy, I have extras and could mail them to you. :)

You sound very angry at the Church.... remember - it is made of fallible human beings. Don't turn from Peter because of Judas.

Answer 3

Try using something besides "CARM" for your source material.

If you were Catholic previously, you unfortunately received poor catechesis which is undoubtedly where the "pseudo" came in. The Church does teach that salvation is by grace, through faith, because that is what the Bible says. However, the Bible also says much more on the subject of justification and sanctification. The entire Bible, both Old and New Testaments, is God's word to us regarding salvation; to take a verse or two or three, lift them out, and declare them doctrine is misleading ... and it has obviously led many away from the unabridged Christianity of the Church.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say "faith in Jesus ALONE is all that is necessary for a Christian to go to heaven". Should you happen to find such a reference, let us know.

Edit: From your tone in this and other Catholic-baiting questions, you appear to be far more audacious (and pompous) than your respondents. No one but you has brought up the possibility that you may be edging back toward the banks of the Tiber; conclude from that what you will. Peace be with you.

Answer 4

You are incorrect about your belief in the Catholic Church.

Excommunication is a severe penalty resulting from grave crimes against the Catholic religion.

It is imposed by church authority or incurred as a direct result of the commission of an offense.

Excommunication excludes the offender from taking part in the Eucharist or other sacraments and from the exercise of any ecclesiastical office, ministry, or function.

Excommunication does not mean a loss of salvation. However, the crime committed that was penalized by it might be a mortal sin.

There are a few offenses for which Latin Rite Roman Catholics are automatically excommunicated (the Latin term is Latæ Sententiæ):
+ Apostasy - the formal renunciation of one's religion, especially if the motive is deemed unworthy
+ Heresy
+ Desecration of the Eucharist
+ Physical force against the Pope
+ Attempted sacramental absolution of a partner in adultery
+ Ordination of a bishop without a Papal mandate (e.g. all bishops in the government-run Chinese Patriotic Church)
+ For non-electors present in the conclave, revelation of the details of the conclave
+ Simoniacal provision of the Papal office
+ Violation of the sacramental seal of confession by a priest or bishop
+ Procurement of a completed abortion

Remember the purpose of excommunication is the correction and redemption of the person who has chosen to separate himself or herself from the Church.

For more information, see: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm

With love in Christ.

Answer 5

If there are RC's that are proclaiming salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone then I'd say there was a change in the wind for the RC Church.

If you have as you say, a revelation of the power of God's Holy Spirit in your life, you should be celebrating the evidence of His work from within the RC Church.

There is a ground swell of change sweeping across the Globe and the RC is no exception. Born again believers within the Catholic Church are choosing (led) to stay put and be the yeast that works through the dough, the agents of change. The Holy Spirit is going about God's business.

Rejoice and be glad in it.

Answer 6

For in grace, through faith are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone be boasting - Ephesians 2:8-9

Grace is a done deal - Christ saved ALL on Calvary (I Timothy 4:10), whether you believe it or not.

Faith aquaints us with this marvelous gift. This faith comes from God - we have nothing to do with it. We didn't choose to believe and we don't have anything to do with being saved.

Why? - because if we did we would be able to boast of our accomplishment and consequently misappropriate the glory of Christ's accomplishment.

The verse continues - For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them - Ephesians 2:10

Clear enough? We don't do the works - the works, planned by God beforehand, are manifested through us. God chooses us for his own purposes.

Now go read I Corinthians 15:20-28 and pray that the Holy Spirit will show you truth.

Answer 7

Pastor Billy says: from the earliest of times the Catholic Church has professed salvation foremost is by God's grace. If Protestants have retained this truth it is only because Catholicism as first Christianity taught it first.

Now with regards to "faith alone" the majority of those who claim such doctrine also claim sola scriptura "bible alone",
your homework today is to find in the bible the words "faith alone"

your answer shall be graded upon submission
I shall await your answer.

Answer 8

*Is Catholic*

It is important to keep in mind that Catholics understand salvation differently from Protestants. Protestants tend to unite justification/redemption/savation/ all as one concept. Catholics see them as different concepts.

Redemption is the act of the Cross, of the sacrafice of Christ. This redeamed humanity from sin and the devil. This is a fully pure gift of Grace.

Justification occurs at baptism and it is how the individual person is redemed. The individual is justifed here as a gift of grace but it requires some form of co-operation with this grace. Either a choice must be made to recieve baptism by the individual, or the individual's parents so choose. But the grace given in Baptism is unmerited completly.

Salvation occurs as a finality when the individual is in heaven. While on earth the individual is saved but in the process of being saved. The process of salvation of santification requires works as well as a co-operate with grace.

St. Augustine said The God who created thee without thee will not save thee without thee.

This is true.

For we are REQUIRED to pick up our crosses and to become perfect like our Father in heaven is perfect. Jesus did not say "Blamo! You are perfect now" rather he said "follow me". So works are required because we must go and produce fruit. For the fig tree with no fruit is not a sinner, for a sinner would be a dead tree, but rather the fig tree is one of the elect that has not produced fruit and as such is only fit for the fire.

Yes God is calling you to Catholicism.

No you should accept the teachings of the Church because the Church is the Mystical Body of Christ. Christ is the Church's head, this is what scripture says and is all over the writings of St. Paul. You should accept the teachings because the Church and Christ are united. They have the same spirit, the Holy Spirit. This is what St. Paul teaches, that we are one body and we are to conform ourselves to our head who is Christ.

I do not know what has been "personaly revealed" to you, but consider that the Gospel is given to all, as Christ is given to all. If you have a revelation that is only given to you and it is new and different, of what use is it? Christ himself is the final revelation and the Church is his Body. So if your revelation is new and different from the revelation of Christ, then it must not be from Christ.

There is personal revelation to a person, but such revelation only is secondary to the revelation of the Gospel and such revelation is not necessary for salvation as it is only personal and not a universal revelation.

You speak a lot about "false teachings" however there is nothing false about the Church, for if she was false then Christ would be false. For you can take the teachings of the Church and show how they have always been there in one form or another. All that the Church teaches in this world stems from the revelation of Christ. There is no teaching that does not return to this focus on the person of Christ. The Catechism is very well put together in showing this focus. Reading it would help.


Now personaly I would be looking at where your drive comes from. There is a difference between holy zeal for the Lord and destructive anger towards those that you think are not worshiping correctly.

Now I do not know what you are experiance, but zeal is firery but ultimatly merciful and it seeks not the destruction of heretics but the redemption of heretics. The man with zeal carries not a knife but rather his pants are worn at the knees from all the praying he does.

Now if you want me to go through your claims I will, but you will have to message me, for I require that you spend time in prayer if I am to spend time going through claims.

Answer 9

I will answer this with a quote from Martin Luther

Even Martin Luther saw the inescapable principle of fragmentation and disunity that lies at the heart of . In a letter to Urlich Zwingli, he complained bitterly about the doctrinal anarchy that was even then rampant among Protestants: "If the world lasts, it will be necessary, on account of the differing interpretations of Scripture which now exist, that to preserve the unity of faith, we should receive the [Catholic] councils and decrees and fly to them for refuge."


The fruits of Sola Scriptura...

"But when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will teach you all the truth. For He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He will hear he will speak, and the things that are to come He will declare to you." John 16:13

Most non-Catholic sects declare that the Holy Spirit is 'teaching' them the truth. However, there can be only one truth. Since the advent of Sola Scriptura and individual interpretation of Scripture, how can the Holy Spirit be in each of the thousands of sects, teaching all of them opposing viewpoints? It is to be noted that all of the following denominations teach from the same Bible, so why the differences in teaching?

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?

2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?

3. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?

4. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?

5. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, 'once saved always saved', and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?

6. How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?

7. How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GOD?

I could go on and on with the differences between non-Catholic sects, but I think you get the point. It takes only a minimum of common sense to realize that the Holy Spirit could not be speaking to each and everyone of those thousands of non-Catholic sects in the opposing ways of which I have sampled here. However, I was recently reminded that common sense is not so common anymore. It is easy to see that the 'fruits of Sola Scriptura' are not from GOD. There is no 'one fold and one shepherd' in Protestantism. Opposing teachings in these denominations is rampant, all caused by the false doctrine of Sola Scriptura and its accompanying 'individual interpretation' of Holy Scripture. Which, if any, of these sects is being taught all of the truth, as promised by Jesus Christ in John 16:13?

"And we are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom GOD has given to all who obey Him." Acts 5:32

Okay, GOD Himself has thrown down the gauntlet...TO ALL WHO OBEY HIM.
So who obeys the will of GOD? Is it the Lutherans who say the Holy Eucharist is the 'True Presence' of Jesus Christ incarnate, or is it the Baptists who say, 'It is only a symbol'?
Is it those who say we have to worship on Saturday or is it those who say worship on Sunday?
Is it those who say baptize infants or those who say not to?

Answer 10

i think of your defective because of the fact they have been all written by ability of fellows. there is not any evidence it got here from God different than the indisputable fact that somebody advised you it did and you have been taught that because you have been born so now its element of who you're and what you chosen to have confidence. no rely if that's the 1st version or the 10th version. they are all written by ability of fellows. you chosen to have confidence it became written by ability of God or stimulated by ability of God. besides its all the comparable God that Christians, jews and muslims have confidence in. are not you all infants of Abraham? You religious human beings argue approximately such stupid issues. If youre a stable man or woman, artwork no longer undemanding and feed your loved ones- why are you nonetheless undesirable in the journey that your faith is distinctive? You religious human beings want particularly much less piousness and a lot extra empathy for others.