Catholics: What do you make of this Bible scripture?

Question

“Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”
Romans 11:5-6

Here, Paul talks about “the election of grace”.

It is not the election of works.
It is not the election of grace + works.

It is the election of GRACE.

And as IF to prevent the error of thinking that election and salvation is according to (or based on) grace PLUS works, Paul continues his argument to say:

IF it is according to grace, then it CAN’T be according to works. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace!
IF it is according to works, then it CAN’T be according to grace. Otherwise, works would no longer be works!

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Now then, I am NOT saying that “works” are not necessary for salvation. Just as Abraham can be SEEN to be justified by his faith by what he DID, true faith is evident by works! So “faith” without works is dead – and such a dead faith does NOT save. True faith DOES produce works.

However, when Paul is speaking about the BASIS of election and salvation, he is clearly stating that it is by GRACE alone. If by grace AND works, then it is no longer by grace, for the word “grace” indicates a FREE gift, that is unmerited, undeserved, unearned. That is, grace means that works do NOT contribute to our salvation.
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So, if you are a Catholic, you need to know that your church and doctrine (the church tradition) states that you works merit for you salvation – even if done via the power of the Holy Spirit. And this is in direct opposition to the basic Gospel that is proclaimed in the Bible.

…and from within Catholicism, you bear a “weight” that no one can – for no one is “good enough” by their “works” to merit salvation. And this very weight actually keeps you tethered in fear – fear in condemnation and fear of being condemned by God!

READ the Bible for yourself and break free of this bondage! In the freedom of grace, as empowered by the Holy Spirit, true love, obedience, works, and worship will abound and overflow from within you…!

Answer 1

Catholics do not believe in faith and works for salvation.

Here is the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification by Catholics (1999), Lutherans (1999), and Methodists (2006):

By grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping us and calling us to good works.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

With love in Christ.

Answer 2

You do realize St. Paul is speaking of the Israelites? This chapter starts with a question: Has God abandoned His chosen people? The answer is no, of course not.

Not only has He not abandoned them, but they (the remnant according to the election of grace) are the root into which we gentiles are grafted. And those who have been cut off will also be grafted back in if they turn from their disbelief. And also we are warned that if God would cut off the natural branches, He will cut us as well if we do not remain in His kindness. Maybe that's why elsewhere we are also told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

The gates of hell will not prevail against the Church that Jesus Christ established and two verses taken out of context won't shake my faith in that Church.

†Pax Tecum†

Answer 3

I was with you until you said "So, if you are a Catholic, you need to know that your church and doctrine (the church tradition) states that you works merit for you salvation – even if done via the power of the Holy Spirit. And this is in direct opposition to the basic Gospel that is proclaimed in the Bible."

That is not what Catholicism says, really.

Answer 4

I am really amazed by your assertions. I am no longer Roman Catholic (RC), but still a Christian. I can still remember our Sunday School catechism book, with a picture of a man building a bridge to heaven out of works, and the bridge unable to reach...

The RCC does *not* teach that salvation is gained by works. Period.

If you're going to bash a sect for their beliefs, you really should find out what they believe first. There are plenty of good reasons to disagree with RC teachings. You don't have to make new ones up.

Jim, http://www.jimpettis.com/wheel/

Answer 5

Pastor Billy says: your primary mistake is confusing works of the Law with works of Love.

"and of faith, hope and love which is the greatest of these?"

Catholicism my friend when talking on the importance of love (charity as the old biblical text reads) is explaining ones faith is made whole only in action. Eph2:10 "for we are made in his workmanship for good works", it is through good works that our faith has true value, true faith. As James explains "show me your works and..." he goes on to explain "faith without works is dead" and "one is not saved by faith alone"

These instructions whether they be James or Paul speaking is what Catholicism teaches however you've been taught to extract scriptural verses condemming the teaching of the Old Law or works of the law as practiced by the followers of Judaism to which the Christian is no longer a part.
Christ came not to do away with but to perfect the old system of worship and pratice and therefore natural law and moral law still exists in Christianity but all the additional stuff the Jews added as externals was striped away. In Christ's instruction to love your God and love your neighbour we see our faith. We are to be true to our faith and make alive by action by centering on charity then and only then does faith continue with merit.


Try spending time learning Catholicism not simply what you think it to be via anti-Catholic sources and misrepresentations.
Catholicism does not teach a "doctrine of works' so often accused of by anti-Catholics, bigots and liers. Use your intellect and search for greater truth in doing so you'll be less likely to fall for these slanders against your fellow Christians and possibly commit less sin.

Answer 6

You need to understand that there are varying types of grace:

Actual grace is defined as a supernatural help of God for acts granted in consideration of the merits of Christ.

Sanctifying grace is a supernatural gift of God to intellectual creatures (men, angels) for their eternal salvation. There is a preparation for sanctifying grace, or the process of justification.

Theories about what grace is, and how it functions, have produced various heresies regarding free will. Luther and Calvin argued that men in essence had no free will, as they were either sinners incapable of doing good, or they were saved by God's grace, and God's grace alone.

The problem with your question is that you want a simple, black and white answer, for something as complex as God's grace. When you throw in works as a product of human free will, then the question becomes doubly complex.

Please research what the Catholic Church really teaches about grace and works, rather than rely on your faulty interpretation of Scripture.

Answer 7

I know you, by that I mean your Spirit!

James also says (2 vs 14-17) -what good is it my brothers & sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have the works?...... You are kicking the Rock!
It was the Catholic (meaning Universal) Church, from the beginning which put Scripture together, so stop being ignorant!

Answer 8

Praise God that someone gave you the Catechism to read. At least now you know that what you believed the Church taught is in error. Would you like to repent of your sin of bearing false witness of the Church and His faithful? Here is what Scripture says:


(Exo 20:16 DRB) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

Answer 9

Catholics are typically quick to dismiss much of the New Testament as "just Pauline doctrine."

All that is required for salvation is faith. Rome wants to keep you in bondage with all these rules and regulations--and on top of that even they admit it might not be enough.

Answer 10

Sweetie, you need to read what the Catholic Church teaches, NOT what some anti-papist ranter claims.

Holy Mother Church has ALWAYS taught that salvation is the gift of God and that gift (grace) is Jesus' sacrifice.

SHEEESH! Enough with the lies already!