Atheists and fundamentalists: Same or different?

Question

Both believe in miracles. Fundamentalists believe Jesus walked on water. Atheists believe you get Shakespeare, Michelangelo, and Mozart from a lightning strike on inanimate matter.

Both believe in predestination. Fundamentalists believe God predetermines who will go to heaven and who will go to hell. Atheists believe that heredity predetermines whether you will be sexually faithful in marriage or perform sex on a succession of same-sex strangers.

Both accept dogmas by blind faith. Fundamentalists believe God created the universe out of nothing. Atheists believe that rocks assembled themselves into living cells full of complex microscopic machine, with metabolism and reproduction directed by libraries of information in DNA.

Tawaen, what is the probability of getting a library of DNA information in a living cell, sufficient to drive metabolism and reproduction, from a pool of inanimate chemicals?

Klover and Magley, is there some third explanation between God creating the universe and life assembling itself by some wildly improbable accident?

Jolly Roger, citing breeding horses as evidence for the evolution of Mozart is no more convincing than fundamentalists citing the Bible. Both are statements of faith.

One further similarity between atheists and fundamentalists: Both live to evangelize.

Answer 1

Hi Bruce,

Atheists and fundamentalists share many of the same characteristics One of which is to provoke intense disagreement which it seems they also share with you judging by some of the responses above. Still there are major differences. An obvious one is that the atheist has a choice as to whether to attempt to proselytize his faith or not.
The fundamentalist either Christian or Muslim does not--it is a requirement of that belief. Consequently, the religious fundamentalist does on the average tend to be more obnoxious even though it may not be in their basic nature to be rude. The point to them is that: if they don't convince you of their point of view, eternally bad things will happen to you whereas the motivation for the atheist is that if he convinces his opponents then they will stop bothering him, a much less cosmic consequence.

Your point that both fundamentalists and atheists are making a "faith" statement is correct. A point that seems to be lost on most atheists who don't see the inherent irony that rejecting all religious faith is a faith statement in itself.

I trust that your question got people to think about this.

Cheers,
Skip

Answer 2

VERY different! For one thing, atheists have tended to be much more civil than fundamentalist Christians in my experience. I've certainly been on the receiving end of some contempt *for religion* from atheists, but they have by and large been polite and respectful of me as a person. Contrast this with a pious fundamentalist Christian who spat in my face and demanded to know why "good Catholic girls" like me didn't whore themselves out to priests to keep them from abusing little boys.

I disagree with your characterization of atheists as believing in miracles. I believe rather the opposite is true. The argument I have seen used is that there is no concrete, scientifically verifiable evidence for God's involvement in the creation of the universe, therefore there is no God. This argument is just as scientifically inappropriate as stating that the universe is so complex that there *must* be a God who created it. Science will tell you what happened and how it happened. Why it happened is left up to the observer, since there is presently no objective means of proving one or the other argument.

Your analysis of predestination is... very confusing. Not all fundamentalist Christians believe in predestination, and I fail to see what atheism has to do with heredity. If you have an issue with predestination, then take that up with the calvinists. I don't believe that fidelity has been conclusively linked to any heritable trait. Homosexuality might be genetic, but it certainly is biological. In any case, I don't believe it is either 100% voluntary or 100% involuntary. As with most traits of the human psyche, sexual orientation tends to be a continuum. You may not have much control over where you land on that continuum, but you have every control over what you do about it. None of the biology has anything to do with belief in God or lack thereof. The only affect belief has on the whole matter is how each person constructs their idea of sexual morality.

In sum and based on your arguments, I would say that atheists and fundamentalist Christians are nothing alike, in general. Of course, you will find the rare well-behaved fundamentalist and the rare rabid, evangelical atheist, but these are creatures not often seen in the wild.

Answer 3

OK let me see....

sounds like you are just trying to provoke a fight
should I bother hum...

ok I can't help myself I have a little time to kill

first off Shakespeare, Michelangelo and Mozart came about way long after the lightening strike so there was a little more to that than you allow for

Second off how do sex and predetermination into heaven relate exactly? because I'm failing to see this as anything other than an attempt to make Atheists look bad. And for clarity the single highest religion and divorce rate is in the group labeled fundamentalist seems that they like to sleep around too they just go through the trouble of making it look legit.

and Finally what atheist has ever come to accept any dogma through blind faith. We tend to prefer the scientific process whereby even if we didn't do the research someone else who is very credible did and and other also very credible people were able to duplicate the results. We generally have way more facts and figures in our dogma than the typical Fundamentalist.

other than that like most people we have a lot of similarities like we need to take in nutrition, breath clean air, be protected from the elements, are driven to reproduce, bleed when injured, share in human emotion and need a community in which we feel we belong and once having found that community will defend it loudly and vigorously.

Answer 4

No, your statement is based on a false premise or a misunderstanding of the situation. Atheists, at least the ones that take science as a fact (indicated in your question), don't believe, they accept the evidence and proven theories. This is not the same as blind faith, or if it is, then it is based on repeatable and verifiable observations.

So in the case of evolution, there is overwhelming evidence that it did and continues to happen, and contrary to what some think it is a proven scientific theory, no belief needed. The effects of heredity and environment are still in discussion, as far as I know, but there are definite heredity characteristics an easy example is breding horses or dogs for various characteristics, or the same with plants like the banana.

Science is not blind faith, it is a search for and codification of facts.

Answer 5

All the atheists that answered seem upset that you have stated the truth. I, a fundamental Christian, believe by faith in God. To believe in the Big Bang theory and the theory of evolution takes faith also. Never in the existence of science has someone witnessed a new species arising from a different one. Therefore they believe that this happens through blind faith. The evidence they say they have is the same evidence I say I have as a creationist. They use fossils to say that evolution is true. I use fossils to say that creation is true. They don't have all the answers. I don't have all the answers. Believe it or not but, atheists are very religious people. They are devout and loyal to their evolution god.

Answer 6

Fundamentally, atheists and agnostics and religious fundamentalists, moderates or liberals are ALL THE SAME in divine spiritual potential. The same pure Essence-Luminosity (Spirit Light) burns brightly within each normal living human being over about age six years. This Adjusting Presence within you and me is the perfect will of God ! and is also the future perfected You ! (or me, or any other Human here)

In my life experience, I was raised by both of my parents to intellectually believing in main-line Methodist church and Bible doctrines. From ages 6 -12 yrs, I increasingly rejected more and more of those narrow-minded, wrathful, changing, emotional god views. So, ages 12-25, I shocked my parents and many of my friends in bluntly stating that I was an atheist -- the old god-to-God changing Bible and church views are inferior. I pursued math, astronomy, physics, music, chemistry, race cars, girls, electronics teaching, etc. By age 25, I was very successful, married, many friends, good life ... but I was ever more cynical of man's abilities to know Absolute and Infinite Reality. I earlier dropped in college my goal of being an inorganic chemist; as I discovered that the basic "a priori" assumptions of math and science are ALSO based just on BLIND FAITH -- it should be that way -- so we agree -- but we can't absolutely prove our laws of science to be universal and not local. So, ages 25 -36, I called myself an agnostic, but still seeking Infinite or Absolute Reality. Seek some and suddenly you may find is very True.

Age 36, in 1976, I am soul (see my other posts for some details) and age 37, on 5-24-AD1977, I am given a Sacred, Transforming Vision of God and Jesus here upon us as One Infinite Love-Power- I AM Presence ... much more ... (see some of my other posts ...but all ineffable, noetic (grokked) and beyond words.

Since that Spirit Birth, for more than 30 years to date, I am a Jesusonian Christian Evangelist (no outer church, I teach the best 5% of the Bible, not the bad parts) and Theologian with remaining philosophy and science interests. Thus, I have personally experienced many common evolving philosopies of mankind.

Here is one of many hundreds of ways that I share Good News to all. There are two Persons you can never run away from:
GOD and Yourself, Who together should increasingly control your former mortal animal-origin basic evolutionary nature. This is a personalized view of the great plan of continuing conjoint Revelation-evolution. God in Man and under our perfect loving and merciful God-Man Creator Father-Son Jesus Christ in this universe. Now I do well know that we all do live and perfect in a very fatherly and very friendly universe ! So beautiful, good and true ....

Peace and progress,
Brother Dave, a Jesusonian Christian Truthist
http://www.PureChristians.org/ Gospel enlarging website,
proclaiming worldwide the True Religion
OF JESUS and ABOUT JESUS and IN JESUS
Come and share !

Answer 7

sorry to burst your bubble but abiogenesis is supported as a hypothesis because there is evidence to back it

jesus walking on water will never be a viable hypothesis because it is a physical impossibility

your defintion of miracle is crappy

as far as believing people are genetically programmed to cheat, i think that yes our want to reproduce certainly makes monagamy difficult, but upbringing and culture certainly have a large effect here


and ive never heard anyone suggest rocks assembled themselves to produce dna. thats an interesting theory, sounds pretty made up though. do you have any articles suggesting this?

you might want to read some on what science ACTUALLY says about abiogenesis

then you can come back and have a big boy conversation

Answer 8

Nice try. Actually, it's not even that. Its all been said before, and all thrown back in laughter.

Atheists believe in proof. Theists have faith with no proof.

That's it.

Answer 9

I don't think anyone has really "got" this post yet.

It's brilliant. And I'm laughing at everyone's answers who clearly have completely missed the point.

Answer 10

I am wondering the depth of your sheer dishonesty, whether you are predominantly lying to yourself, or only to the rest of us.

Misrepresenting others is dishonesty, period.

If that's the best argument you can make, that is not the fault of the atheists.